alright, here is the issue...

I have a turbo car, and i prefer autos because i can spool off the line, and i dont loose any boost each time i shift.... plus autos shift nice and fast, and i just prefer autos in daily drivers...

BUT

my 4l60e will not hold 700tq for more then a week which is how much torque i'll have (prolly more) th400 is out of the question because i want my overdrive, and 4l80es cost ALOT of money to be run right... (just a grand alone for the computer system)

I found a nice, rebuilt t56 with a clutch that i can get for a grand..... but the thing with manuals is that, i cant boost off the line, they're very tough on the rear on the launch, and everytime you shift, you loose boost (bout 15psi) but they are fun to drive (even though i prefer autos) and m6s are killers for roll racing (i try to stay away from street racing though)

so what do you say....

Keep the 4l60e, spend a grand on it, and build it as best as you can (most i would say is around 600rwtq)

or get a t56 and forget bout braking it, altough now u have to worry bout ur rearend, and ure gunna be loosing boost everytime u shift....

 

Well i would go for the T-56, cause i have gone through 2 4L60E's and my car just had minor bolts ons. Maybe i just got 2 bad apples, who knows. But i said screw, time for a T-56, and that what i am doing right now, should be done in a couple weeks, soo as i get the rest of my parts.

 

I can build you a 4L60E that'll hold up for your car. If you'd like to go another route, I can also build you a trans-brake 700R4. Manual rev pattern, trans-brake, and O/D. The 'brake valvebody is a little pricey, though. You'd have to throw another $550 on top of the $1000 "race rebuild" cost.

Frank
CPT

 

I don't know much about auto's but aren't the th 350's and 400's a lot stronger? I've seen a few people on the board with 350's. Manuals are a lot of fun to drive but with high hp and a lot of track time auto's are the way to go.

 

A MSD Two step will solve that problem for you.

 

The TH400 is the strongest automatic they've ever put in a production automobile, but a 700/4L60E swap is completely uneccessary unless you're looking to run in the 9's every week. The TH350 ISN'T any stronger than a PROPERLY built 700/4L60E...It just cost less to build. Couple that with the fact that just about anyone with basic mechanical skills can build a TH350 and make it work, is why many switch to them. It takes a real transmission builder to make a 700/4L60E live.
A good trans-brake TH400 will run you around $1500 to have built. I can build a trans-brake 700 for a comparable price. Before everyone interjects themselves to tell me they can get a 400 built for $500, I assure you they're not built with the parts I use in them. I put $100 worth of 2nd gear clutches and steels in a racing 400, alone! It costs me almost $100 to build a 700/4L60E 3-4 clutch pack.
Everyone should remember a very important point...There's a big difference between people who can build a transmission, and a "transmission builder".

I can also freshen up 700/4L60E every 2 seasons for less than you'll spend on a clutch every 2 seasons.

Frank
CPT

 

either that or a man. valve th400. you'll be set.

 

1. I believe a 4L60E can be built to handle it but no good t-brake options. I'm not sure where you are in the country or I would make some recommendations.

2. A 2004R may be your best but not least expensive choice in this case. the 2004R can be built to about 1000hp, has overdrive, and a very reliable trans-brake available which is great to spool boost at the line. The conversion is quite pricey but less than a 4L80E swap and much lighter.

I did not vote because a think a TH400 or 2004R is the best choice. Going to a 6-sp would be rediculous and a very bad idea.

 

" Tekprodave's " idea may be a good one. I don't really know much about the 200R4, other than I've heard a lot of guys run them, and they're pretty stout. Also, you keep your overdrive.

Doing a 4L60E --> T-56 swap isn't going to solve anything in your situation --- the T-56 is only rated to ~450 lb*ft AFAIK?

 

Taking a 4L60E out and putting a 2004R in is akin to pulling your LT1 out and installing a 305.

2004R? are you guys serious? You've got to put a hardened input drum in them, otherwise you'll break the shafts off...Then, once you get the input drums hardened they strip the splines out of the input hub. These things only have (2) 4th frictions, unless you modify the piston to take (3). The sun shells strip..but they can be replaced with hardened one's. Once you put a hardened shell in them, they eat into the direct drums. It's near impossible to get the direct clutches to live for very long in one. Stamped metal drums??? Stamped planetaries???

I've lived through the 2004R era. Yes, I've had 2004R's in 10 second Grand Nationals. Yes, I can build you a racing 2004R...For around $1200. That's how much it's going to cost to build one with all the RIGHT parts to last where any one of my $1000 4L60E's will. You also need to remember all the other conversion parts you'll need to stick a 2004R turd in a 4th gen.

Doesn't anyone realize why GM stopped using these things? They were an O/D version of the useless pile of nuts and bolt known as the 200.

The 2004R isn't anywhere in the same zip code when it comes to a reliability comparison with a 700/60E. Let's all get back to reality here. Based on 14 years of professional transmission building experience, I can assure you I wouldn't put a nickel into trying to build a 2004R for racing.

Frank
CPT

 

Well, I am not a 14 year tranny building vet but I would have to say I disagree for the most part with Frank's reasoning. I base my opinion primarily but not solely on spending much time with a local tranny builder who is one of the best 2004R builders in the country. He just may have spent more time, testing, R&D, etc. on the 2004R than anyone. So much so that his 2004R is far different than its stock form. You could say it is almost completely redesigned. And that is why I believe that Frank's reasoning is somewhat flawed. It's like saying a 95 Z28 is no good compared to a 2002 Z28. That would hold if they were both stock BUT if the 2002 was stock and the 95 was rebuilt using only aftermarket redesigned parts then it would be an entirely different ball game. You'd be comparing a 13 second 2002 stock car to a single digit 1/4 mile monster.

Another advantage of the 2004R is they have a little better (closer gear ratios) in my opinion. This point is debatable since some like the 4L60 gears better. But the 2004R PROPERLY BUILT has many advantages as previously mentioned. And I'm not talking about a $1200 unit. I'll let the seller quote you a price but I wouldn't be surprised if it was $4k or more. Other considerations, as Frank pointed out, the conversion requires additional parts just like a TH400 swap. Also you will lose the ability to change the shift points through the PCM. If you need more information don't be afraid to ask. Another good source for 2004R info is the Turbobuick.com and ptsxtreme.com sites which are owned by the local tranny builder I mentioned. I should also mention that his 2004R builds are VERY reliable even in turbo applications and you don't have to take my word for it. Check out these quotes from his customers:

"Bob & Leigh Hinson.....Montgomery, Al
10.25 @134.44 with 1.59 sixty -StageII Off Center, stock modified ECM
9s are coming -minor changes & traction
Your killer 200R4 trans, I don't want a 400 this is a highway machine!
PTS Xtreme 2004r Competition, Xtreme Billet Converter,"

"I run a 2004R trans built by Performance Transmissions along with a 2800 stall lock-up 9/11 converter. The trans has the billet input shaft, drum, billet pan and extended pick-up; basically all the bells and whistles except for a transbrake. It has worked flawlessly. Even did all the dyno runs on a dyno that bolts directly to the axles with the converter locked; no problems. PTS Killer Street/Strip trans, PTS Xtreme Converter"

 

+1 for the built 4L60e

4l80e swap = worst idea ever, trust me I did it