A few questions for you 4L60e gurus...
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 219
From: Guatemala, Central America
A few questions for you 4L60e gurus...
• I've been having trouble with my 4L60E.. I've been hitting the limiter on my 2nd to 3rd shift a few times (I shift at 6200), signs that my tranny is slipping AGAIN after a recent rebuild (replaced 3-4 clutches cause they keep burning up)...
I've been reading the threads posted in this forum and noticed most agreed that not resinstalling the load release springs can help with this...
What exactly do they mean? The tranny is supposed to run without this springs? I have no idea how they work but just removing is ok or do I need to reinstall different strenght springs? I need to know this so I can explain it to my tranny guy (he doesn't know any english)...
Same thing right? Remove the load release springs... can any tranny guy do this?
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• What else can cause my 2-3 shift to start slipping so suddenly... I know heat can be the most important factor, so I'm buying a larger tranny cooler with a fan... can I use 2 tranny coolers? I could use the one that I have and the new one with a fan at the same time...
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• Also, what brand of clutch packs and bands do you guys recommend... Raybestos Z-pack clutches seem to be very recommended and Borg Warner Hi-Energy bands too... will those hold fine with proper cooling? is there a special combination you guys recommend?... I've seen lots of combinations on different websites with differerent thickness and amount of clutches...
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• What else can I change on my tranny to solve this annoying problem... I love to race my car but burning up my clutches each month is getting annoying and I'm still waiting to find a tranny guy with proper knowledge in my country to fix this...
So perhaps if I can find out the answer over here I don't have to keep waiting 
Sorry for the long post
I've been reading the threads posted in this forum and noticed most agreed that not resinstalling the load release springs can help with this...
If you're reinstalling the "load release springs", you'll waste the 3-4's repeadedly.
Any load release spring with any 3-4 clutch pack with any clutch count will = burnt 3-4 clutches.
The single most important part of a high RPM 4L60E is the pump slide spring. These transmissions were designed to drop pressure at high RPMs. This is OK for a normal car, but it doesn't work very well in a performance application. You can put whatever "kit" in it you'd like, but until you get the 3-4 "load release" springs out of the forward drum, you're going to keep burning 3-4 clutches up.
----------
• What else can cause my 2-3 shift to start slipping so suddenly... I know heat can be the most important factor, so I'm buying a larger tranny cooler with a fan... can I use 2 tranny coolers? I could use the one that I have and the new one with a fan at the same time...
----------
• Also, what brand of clutch packs and bands do you guys recommend... Raybestos Z-pack clutches seem to be very recommended and Borg Warner Hi-Energy bands too... will those hold fine with proper cooling? is there a special combination you guys recommend?... I've seen lots of combinations on different websites with differerent thickness and amount of clutches...
----------
• What else can I change on my tranny to solve this annoying problem... I love to race my car but burning up my clutches each month is getting annoying and I'm still waiting to find a tranny guy with proper knowledge in my country to fix this...
So perhaps if I can find out the answer over here I don't have to keep waiting Sorry for the long post
Last edited by Drowned; Jun 6, 2006 at 03:13 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 37
Re: A few questions for you 4L60e gurus...
You've not gotten a reply as most of the questions your asking are opinions. Lets start like this.....To much has been put on these load release springs, I for one do not find that these springs create an environment that makes the 3-4 clutch burn up, simply put these springs are over run with as little as 80 psi, so they aren’t that big of a deal. For this argument…Look around there are millions of these trannys running around with these Load release springs, they are in the 4L60E as well as the 4L65E transmissions. May I repeat millions of these? They were put there to stop centrifugal apply, of the 3-4 clutch.
These transmissions rely on 8-11 external (external to the transmission) controllers to create line rise. They are the TPS, VSS, TFT, MAP sensor, Engine speed sensor, TCC brake switch , cruise control information, to mention a few. All of these components, along with the PCM and all the associated wiring must work together, in any kind of weather or operating condition to provide the transmission with the tools necessary to have proper line rise. Improper/lethargic line rise due to an electrical glitch will cause low or slow rising line pressure. In other words when you need it the most (line rise) you’ll get it the least. These problems are certainly more important to proper transmission function, than the load release springs.
These transmissions are plagued with other problems; most of the problems are with the hydraulic systems. We have a weak (at best) stock pump. This thing works perfect for the stock cars it’s in but really fails in rpm application over 5500, I personally feel like that rpm is lower more like 4500 rpm’s. The slider spring must be replaced for any kind of performance out of these transmissions…. This is a must! Simple fix here add a heavier spring. Don’t worry about the load release springs when you have this to address.
The input shaft is notorious for cross leaks, You must look into the stator support where these rings seal …it must have a mirror finish there should be no scratches, or groves inside the tube. These imperfections can cause forward or coast clutch apply oil to cross leak into the 3-4 circuit, when this unit is in motion. Sealing rings must be replaced every time the unit is torn down, without exception! Always replace the stator bushings, these bushings are the only means of support for this input drum/shaft assembly. Adjust the end play get all the slop out of this unit; tighten it up, I run no more than ten thousands. All of these measures will help reduce cross leaks. This is way more important than these load release springs will ever be!!
Lets Talk about clutches I run the hi energy clutches from the 4l65E transmission, Why? Availability, durability, wear ability we have had remarkable results with these stockers. I like the thicker steels rather than the thinner steels; although you can fit more clutches in with thinner steels / clutches I believe this is one application where more isn’t better. I know this flies in the face of what others do and I’m sure there are other opinions out there but these are mine and its what has worked for me…we haven’t had much success with the Z-pacs either …we’ve got a couple plumber trucks that have em and they seem to be fine, I won’t use them in Hi performance applications. 3-4 piston movement in this Trans is limited, so it’s important to tighten up this clutch pack, you don’t want to spend all your available movement in the clutch clearance, tighten this clearance up, and get that slop out of this pack. Also with elevated pressures, the bonded pistons have a tendency to leak. Old style pistons and lip seals hold the higher pressures better, and have a better centrifugal apply area than does the bonded piston. Check the release capsule, does it leak by?? How about the shaft where it goes into the drum is it leaking off pressure here??? Build the drum up shoot some oil onto the 3-4 circuit, air check (no more than 80psi all you’re checking for is leaks) this shaft leaky??
These are some of the concerns for a good quality 3-4 clutch pack and when you’ve done these things and get to the load release springs, throw the damn things away and get a good set of anti apply springs and install them…..Sorry so long….BTW... not a guru, just a builder.....Hope this helps….. Dave
These transmissions rely on 8-11 external (external to the transmission) controllers to create line rise. They are the TPS, VSS, TFT, MAP sensor, Engine speed sensor, TCC brake switch , cruise control information, to mention a few. All of these components, along with the PCM and all the associated wiring must work together, in any kind of weather or operating condition to provide the transmission with the tools necessary to have proper line rise. Improper/lethargic line rise due to an electrical glitch will cause low or slow rising line pressure. In other words when you need it the most (line rise) you’ll get it the least. These problems are certainly more important to proper transmission function, than the load release springs.
These transmissions are plagued with other problems; most of the problems are with the hydraulic systems. We have a weak (at best) stock pump. This thing works perfect for the stock cars it’s in but really fails in rpm application over 5500, I personally feel like that rpm is lower more like 4500 rpm’s. The slider spring must be replaced for any kind of performance out of these transmissions…. This is a must! Simple fix here add a heavier spring. Don’t worry about the load release springs when you have this to address.
The input shaft is notorious for cross leaks, You must look into the stator support where these rings seal …it must have a mirror finish there should be no scratches, or groves inside the tube. These imperfections can cause forward or coast clutch apply oil to cross leak into the 3-4 circuit, when this unit is in motion. Sealing rings must be replaced every time the unit is torn down, without exception! Always replace the stator bushings, these bushings are the only means of support for this input drum/shaft assembly. Adjust the end play get all the slop out of this unit; tighten it up, I run no more than ten thousands. All of these measures will help reduce cross leaks. This is way more important than these load release springs will ever be!!
Lets Talk about clutches I run the hi energy clutches from the 4l65E transmission, Why? Availability, durability, wear ability we have had remarkable results with these stockers. I like the thicker steels rather than the thinner steels; although you can fit more clutches in with thinner steels / clutches I believe this is one application where more isn’t better. I know this flies in the face of what others do and I’m sure there are other opinions out there but these are mine and its what has worked for me…we haven’t had much success with the Z-pacs either …we’ve got a couple plumber trucks that have em and they seem to be fine, I won’t use them in Hi performance applications. 3-4 piston movement in this Trans is limited, so it’s important to tighten up this clutch pack, you don’t want to spend all your available movement in the clutch clearance, tighten this clearance up, and get that slop out of this pack. Also with elevated pressures, the bonded pistons have a tendency to leak. Old style pistons and lip seals hold the higher pressures better, and have a better centrifugal apply area than does the bonded piston. Check the release capsule, does it leak by?? How about the shaft where it goes into the drum is it leaking off pressure here??? Build the drum up shoot some oil onto the 3-4 circuit, air check (no more than 80psi all you’re checking for is leaks) this shaft leaky??
These are some of the concerns for a good quality 3-4 clutch pack and when you’ve done these things and get to the load release springs, throw the damn things away and get a good set of anti apply springs and install them…..Sorry so long….BTW... not a guru, just a builder.....Hope this helps….. Dave
Last edited by Rock-On; Jun 9, 2006 at 11:21 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 219
From: Guatemala, Central America
Re: A few questions for you 4L60e gurus...
Wow, thanks for all that infomation 
I thought nobody was going to reply, but you certainly cleared a lot of questions I had. I'm going to translate it to my mechanic, since this transmissions aren't very commong over here, he's having a hard time
Thank again!
I thought nobody was going to reply, but you certainly cleared a lot of questions I had. I'm going to translate it to my mechanic, since this transmissions aren't very commong over here, he's having a hard time Thank again!
Last edited by Drowned; Jun 10, 2006 at 03:16 PM.
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