I have a 67 camaro ss. bout 300 rwhp. i got 3.73's outback and a th-350. I rev 2900 rpm at 60 mph. and its totally killin my mileage. this is a semi daily driver. bout 4 days outa the week.

Im thinking if i just swap in a 700-r4. i get a nice .74-1 over drive. and a 3.06 first gear vs. a 2.56.

this would drop my revs to just over 2000 at 60 mph. but is it worth doing? im havin a few tranny problems right now. so im going to have to either rebuild this one. or just get a 700r4. thats why im asking.

and would it bolt right on. i got a 350.?

 

If you have the money, go with a 700-r4. It'll easily handle what your engine is putting out, give you a LOT better mileage, and might even make you a little faster with that 3.06 first gear. However, the drop from 1st to 2nd is pretty big, your revs won't drop quite as much as you think unless you get a lock-up convertor with a lock-up control, you'll have to have your driveshaft shortened, and if you're planning on replacing your tranny anyway, it will be more expensive to swap in the OD tranny. But, I think it'll be worth it. Oh, also, you'll need to have a new crossmember made, but you can do that yourself or buy one pre-made. They're not expensive.

 

Check out the 200r4 found in GN's and other G-bodies. It's length is more comperable to the th350 and can be built just as strong as a 700r4.

 

I've asked around and some "professionals" have said that the 700r4 can't hold up to a lot of power! I'm putting in a ZZ502 and they claim that it can't handle the output of that engine. You're rearwheel horses are comparable to the output of a ZZ502 (340-360ft/lbs). I don't want the 4l80e and I definetly can't afford the gas in a th400 since I'm primarily using it for cruising.

Bowties (www.700r4.com) has a complete set up for what you'd be looking for. They've got idiot proof directions and everything you'll need (including that crossmember!). I'm still debating on whether I want to take the risk for that high O.D. gear. Bowties claims the 3rd option tranny can handle 630 hps and 630 ft/lbs plus they give a two year warrenty!. They've got a 4th option that's even stronger, but they don't recommend it for primary street usage.

They're expensive, but if it'll hold up to the power I can top out at 180mph in a 69 Camaro...that's hawlin A$$.

 

It all depends on how they're built and how you treat them. I've seen some very fast Grand Nationals running the 200r4, and some very fast 3rd gen F-bodies running the 700r4. There was a guy around here running a 700r4 behind a healthy Pontiac 400 w/ no probs.

 

shocker, believe what they say. The 200R4 is not the joke that a lot of people make it out to be. There are quite a few GN's and T-Types in the 10's and even 9's with 200R4's, and torque is the forte of turbo Buicks. Naturally the ones in the 10's and 9's are built up pretty extensively, but with good Alto 'Red' clutches, modified servo, pressure regulator system, a shift kit and a hardened stator support, they can withstand considerable power. Plus, they are smaller and lighter and have lighter internal components, thus soaking up less horsepower.

If you need to know more, the man to call is Bruce Toelle of Performance Transmission Service in Sacramento, CA. www.2004Rperformancecenter.com Or try Eric Shertz of Dynotech Performance in NJ. www.dynotechperformance.com

Hope this helps.
Steve

 

go with the 700r4. they are cheaper/easier to find/find parts for. and u cant beat the first gear ratio and OD!!!

 

Good luck. I'd bet on about 130-140.

 

That's theoritical calculations...the gear ratio's will work out to 180, but the car isn't exactly aerodynamic.

 

I just put a 700r4 in my 81z28. i got it free from my uncle and got it rebuilt to hold 400 rwh. It ended up costing me $825 for the rebuild... $171 for a 2500 stall converter with lockup, i'm putting a switch so i can lock it my self, and i went to my local junkyard and found a perfect fit driveshaft in their pile of driveshafts for $25...i set mine up for very hard shifts by getting servos and booster valves and a killer shift kit .... i also got blue plate clutches...my rebuild man put my extra in for no charge.after i bought it...in the end i put a tranny cooler and synthetic atf. i havn't drove it yet buti'm sure it'll be somethin else.....oh yeah don't forget u need a new shifter unless u don't want control of first gear. i heard alot of good and bad about the700r4 but that was the cheapest way for me and i got all the performance mods in it for less than buying one new...and try to get one from 87-up they are supposed to be build stronger or something.

 

I hate the 3.06 1st gear in my 89 Formula 350. First gear is borderline useless. Just spins the tires. I admit the twin cat TPI makes a lot of torque, but driving around a corner I have to be careful with the gas pedal or the rear end swings around. Then second will kick in cause I'm so light on the throttle, and it's BLAH time cause of the huge rpm drop between 1-2 shift.

So another vote for the 200R4 and it's 2.74 ( or so) first gear.

If you do go 700, definitely get an 87 up tranny. My nephew has an 85 Z28 with the original 350 out of my 71 and had nothing but tranny problems. That was a POS 700! Ended up converting to a T5 which held up fine.

 

Hey S45, I don't remember who makes it but there is a overdrive ad-on for the TH350. It replaces the tailshaft part and operates through a solenoid I think. I'll check with a friend at work tommorow he was look at gettin it for his show car ElCamino. Maybe he knows the manufactor. Later>>>>>>>>>

 

That add on is by gear vendors and it costs about as much as a Richmond 6 speed tranny. I checked them out for my 70.

 

What kind of weak azz 502 are you comparing it to?

 

No that's a serious dyno result on a ZZ502 with the 700r4 tranny! I couldn't believe it either...but all that power doesn't transfer to the back. Check out Nancy's 68 Camaro page...she's got the whole thing documented. She ported her's out to make around 370.

Horsepower TV did an EFI swap from ACCEL on one(assembled ZZ502)...it only produced 400hp at the rearend and like 440ft/lbs.