ok, let's bench build my engine... :)
12-29-2002, 11:10 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Posts: 3,532
ok, let's bench build my engine... :)
I am collecting parts right now.
Current title of the project is: Firebreather 496!
Here is what I am thinking:
454 block (2 bolt) .060 over
Scat crank from flatlander part # 4-454-4250-6385-2
H Beam forged rods 6.385" 7/16" bolts
10:1 forged pistons (not sure of manufacturer/part #)
049 heads, gasket matched, ported, CC'd
2.19/1.88 valves, undercut. Maybe Manley Pro Flo
1.7 roller rockers
I need a cam choice still, as well as intake and carb
I have Hooker 2" long tubes right now
Everything will be studded (heads/mains)
Windage tray and maybe even a crank scraper if I get ambitious
I am looking for an RPM range of around 2500-6500 rpm
Auto trans with 3000 stall converter.
Gears to be determined when the motor is combo'd out.
The car is a 69 camaro
I'm looking for low 10s, but that doesn't matter much until I get a good suspension setup. I just want to be sure I have the power to get there.
Anyone want to help roundout this combo?
Current title of the project is: Firebreather 496!
Here is what I am thinking:
454 block (2 bolt) .060 over
Scat crank from flatlander part # 4-454-4250-6385-2
H Beam forged rods 6.385" 7/16" bolts
10:1 forged pistons (not sure of manufacturer/part #)
049 heads, gasket matched, ported, CC'd
2.19/1.88 valves, undercut. Maybe Manley Pro Flo
1.7 roller rockers
I need a cam choice still, as well as intake and carb
I have Hooker 2" long tubes right now
Everything will be studded (heads/mains)
Windage tray and maybe even a crank scraper if I get ambitious
I am looking for an RPM range of around 2500-6500 rpm
Auto trans with 3000 stall converter.
Gears to be determined when the motor is combo'd out.
The car is a 69 camaro
I'm looking for low 10s, but that doesn't matter much until I get a good suspension setup. I just want to be sure I have the power to get there.
Anyone want to help roundout this combo?
Last edited by Timberwolf; 12-29-2002 at 11:13 AM.
12-30-2002, 07:42 PM
#3
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Posts: 3,532
wow, I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to respond.
Well, what do you think I am lacking? I know guys over at Team Camaro and Team Chevelle forums that are running 10s on big blocks ranging from 396 on up.
With the right combo, I would think I can pull 550-600hp with the stroker motor. If I can get the suspension dialed in, I should be able to get there, or at least I would hope so. These 4th gen guys are doing ti with little more than a bottle of juice and slicks
I am looking at ultradyne cams right now. I think a nice solid or solid roller would be the ticket for this baby. I'm not worried about having to adjust lash every 6 months or so. I don't drive the car as a daily driver anyway.
Well, what do you think I am lacking? I know guys over at Team Camaro and Team Chevelle forums that are running 10s on big blocks ranging from 396 on up.
With the right combo, I would think I can pull 550-600hp with the stroker motor. If I can get the suspension dialed in, I should be able to get there, or at least I would hope so. These 4th gen guys are doing ti with little more than a bottle of juice and slicks
I am looking at ultradyne cams right now. I think a nice solid or solid roller would be the ticket for this baby. I'm not worried about having to adjust lash every 6 months or so. I don't drive the car as a daily driver anyway.
12-31-2002, 11:12 AM
#4
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 85
I seem to remember a guy from the Chevelle site that was running 10s with his 468 made from mostly generic parts. I followed his rantings/ramblings for a while where he was putting some info out on various sites where people were asking his advice. The most interesting thing to me is that I have heard of NOT one person able to duplicate what he has done. As for the 4th gen guys doing it with n2o and slicks, thats crap for the most part unless they are running enough n2o to put their motor at risk. I hear alot from all sorts of guys who say their car runs 10s but sure dont seem to see much at any of the tracks I go to. Its gotten so bad that unless I see a video of that car doing it or am there myself I have a hard time believing it anymore. Of course I am talking about full wieght cars and not stripped out hulks.
Having said that, I do believe your cubic inch motor could do it, it just needs to breathe a bit more or push a lighter car. Either through rpm, intake/head velocity upgrade with rpm, or cam/rpm/intake/head combo almost anything can be achieved. I assume this is a real street car so it will be a heavywieght with a real suspension for safe street use and not initially setup for nitrous with the 10 goal in mind. Building an all motor car to run that fast is definately way more difficult than anything that uses a power adder as it takes more thought from the motor combo to convertor stall selection to gear/tire size. After all, you dont have the option to moderate your launch torque at will like a nitrous/blower car does other than selecting the right convertor. Which by the way seems way to low.
It will be interesting to see how your motor design plays out!
jim
Having said that, I do believe your cubic inch motor could do it, it just needs to breathe a bit more or push a lighter car. Either through rpm, intake/head velocity upgrade with rpm, or cam/rpm/intake/head combo almost anything can be achieved. I assume this is a real street car so it will be a heavywieght with a real suspension for safe street use and not initially setup for nitrous with the 10 goal in mind. Building an all motor car to run that fast is definately way more difficult than anything that uses a power adder as it takes more thought from the motor combo to convertor stall selection to gear/tire size. After all, you dont have the option to moderate your launch torque at will like a nitrous/blower car does other than selecting the right convertor. Which by the way seems way to low.
It will be interesting to see how your motor design plays out!
jim
12-31-2002, 04:28 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 85
Hi Cory!
Yep, its running pretty good. The last time I went I drove to the track, ran all night (10.60-10.70s at 133-135) and then drove home! I love that car, its fun to drive into the track, race the "race" cars and then pass em doing 70 on the freeway going home on their trailers! I still havent used the nitrous yet, I am concerned a bit about the mph. It was never my intention to go that fast and adding 300 or more hp just doesnt seem wise. I took off the drag suspension a while ago in favor of a QA1/HAL road setup and this has killed my launches (no more wheels up) but I can do corners now. I drive around on 93 pump gas with an additive but still use several gallons of 002 Howell fuel at the track. I was detonating somewhat above 6500rpm without it. I definately have some mismatched parts but for some reason it allows me to drive on the street in San Antonio heat mid-day and not heat up and still run hard after driving the 58 miles to RCR. The convertor is about 1000 off for the "right" stall and Hughes says they will fix it but I think I would lose some driveability with the "correct" stall amount.
I havent seen your dad or brother lately. Everything all right?
jim
Yep, its running pretty good. The last time I went I drove to the track, ran all night (10.60-10.70s at 133-135) and then drove home! I love that car, its fun to drive into the track, race the "race" cars and then pass em doing 70 on the freeway going home on their trailers! I still havent used the nitrous yet, I am concerned a bit about the mph. It was never my intention to go that fast and adding 300 or more hp just doesnt seem wise. I took off the drag suspension a while ago in favor of a QA1/HAL road setup and this has killed my launches (no more wheels up) but I can do corners now. I drive around on 93 pump gas with an additive but still use several gallons of 002 Howell fuel at the track. I was detonating somewhat above 6500rpm without it. I definately have some mismatched parts but for some reason it allows me to drive on the street in San Antonio heat mid-day and not heat up and still run hard after driving the 58 miles to RCR. The convertor is about 1000 off for the "right" stall and Hughes says they will fix it but I think I would lose some driveability with the "correct" stall amount.
I havent seen your dad or brother lately. Everything all right?
jim
12-31-2002, 08:24 PM
#7
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: All Over
Posts: 111
Jim,
Glad to hear it is running that good. That sure is a lot of mph. Trent and my dad have been pretty busy. They had some engine problems with the chevette so they are looking at their options. Trent wants to run in that new Texas Pro Stock Association series so he has been doing a "little" work to the car. I don't think they will be back at the track until mid January with their car. Trent has been driving a 55 pickup for a friend out there everyonce in a while. Not sure of the color anymore, but it has a blower and runs in the 11s.
I decide to go with a small block for my car right now instead of a big block (it's one of those too good to pass up deals). Originally dynoed the motor at nearly 600hp and then decided to go with a roller set up. During the initial tuning runs on the chassis dyno, I twisted my driveshaft in two and cracked the bellhousing. Just got that stuff fixed, but won't try any more "test" runs until I get that TH400 rebuilt and put in with a Denny's driveshaft. I am now setting up my rearend to handle all this new found power. I have been talking to a guy in Houston that is running 8.80s in the quarter on 10" tires with no minitubs and stock type suspension (leaf springs and traction device). I will be on this island for about 10 more months and then hope to bring the car to SA for cage, body work and some track time.
Cory
Glad to hear it is running that good. That sure is a lot of mph. Trent and my dad have been pretty busy. They had some engine problems with the chevette so they are looking at their options. Trent wants to run in that new Texas Pro Stock Association series so he has been doing a "little" work to the car. I don't think they will be back at the track until mid January with their car. Trent has been driving a 55 pickup for a friend out there everyonce in a while. Not sure of the color anymore, but it has a blower and runs in the 11s.
I decide to go with a small block for my car right now instead of a big block (it's one of those too good to pass up deals). Originally dynoed the motor at nearly 600hp and then decided to go with a roller set up. During the initial tuning runs on the chassis dyno, I twisted my driveshaft in two and cracked the bellhousing. Just got that stuff fixed, but won't try any more "test" runs until I get that TH400 rebuilt and put in with a Denny's driveshaft. I am now setting up my rearend to handle all this new found power. I have been talking to a guy in Houston that is running 8.80s in the quarter on 10" tires with no minitubs and stock type suspension (leaf springs and traction device). I will be on this island for about 10 more months and then hope to bring the car to SA for cage, body work and some track time.
Cory
12-31-2002, 08:44 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 85
I think the mph is so high compared to the et due to the way the motor breathes coupled with a non-working suspension. The motor doesnt breathe well till its over 4250rpm or so (I have never managed to look at the tach when the power surge hits). The 60' times are only 1.64s or so. It seems that about 200-300 feet out or so the car just goes through an acceleration phase. I know that a convertor would help out and probably drop the et by .3 or .4 or so but I drive alot on the freeway and dont want a loose setup with the overdrive I have.
I had my driveshaft made by Thrash here in San Antonio and paid $175 which included new 1350 u-joints etc. No complaints yet and it seems to be holding up just fine.
Who is it you are talking to in Houston? 8.80s is awful quick! I dont remember any small tire nitrous car running that fast in any of the Clash series this year?
jim
I had my driveshaft made by Thrash here in San Antonio and paid $175 which included new 1350 u-joints etc. No complaints yet and it seems to be holding up just fine.
Who is it you are talking to in Houston? 8.80s is awful quick! I dont remember any small tire nitrous car running that fast in any of the Clash series this year?
jim
12-31-2002, 09:34 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: All Over
Posts: 111
He goes by predator on the hot rod gossip page. He is very friendly and seems to know what he is talking about. He talked about the old Joysey Camaro in E-Z Street. That car was running 8.20 on Cal-tracs with a 28x10 tire.
I don't think he runs those clash events. I think he just stays in the Houston area and races. Either way his car is a modified looking 68 that is solid blue and a small cowl hood. You would never guess he could run 8 by seeing the outside ( It just looks like a really nice street machine), but when you see under the hood, well that is a dead giveaway. He is running low 10s high 9s on motor and high 8s with a lot of juice.
How long did it take thrash to build your driveshaft? I may just go there since it is much cheaper and they are from SA.
cory
I don't think he runs those clash events. I think he just stays in the Houston area and races. Either way his car is a modified looking 68 that is solid blue and a small cowl hood. You would never guess he could run 8 by seeing the outside ( It just looks like a really nice street machine), but when you see under the hood, well that is a dead giveaway. He is running low 10s high 9s on motor and high 8s with a lot of juice.
How long did it take thrash to build your driveshaft? I may just go there since it is much cheaper and they are from SA.
cory
01-01-2003, 07:14 PM
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sebring, FL, USA
Posts: 93
Pink, you run 10s and drive the car to and from the strip? What converter and tires are you running? Do you have any idea on what I can do to my 79 Z28 to be able to do that? The car has a 350 SBC 4 bolt main and TH350 trans. I was thinking 3500 or 3800 stall converter. You have any ideas on how I can build my motor to run 11s w/o n2o???? IF you do please let me know. like any cam/head ideas.
Thank you
Jason
Thank you
Jason
01-03-2003, 07:16 AM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bryan Tex, USA
Posts: 83
i would start with a better head than a factory casting
Shoot for something that flows 300 out of the box and has about 290cc of port volume. Then work on cam grinds.
Last edited by gs400tx; 01-03-2003 at 07:53 AM.
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