First Gen Camaro Question
10-08-2003, 01:58 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: huntington beach
Posts: 12
First Gen Camaro Question
hi all
i'm thinking to buy a first gen camaro
i currently have a 99 v6 that i'm going to sell to get one of this babies.
what year was the best for all performance.
should i get something already ready to race or just a regular restored one
how expensive can be to tuned up,
what about parts availability/price
i know they are expensive for 4th gen camaros even the v6
I really want to get a beast
i'm thinking to buy a first gen camaro
i currently have a 99 v6 that i'm going to sell to get one of this babies.
what year was the best for all performance.
should i get something already ready to race or just a regular restored one
how expensive can be to tuned up,
what about parts availability/price
i know they are expensive for 4th gen camaros even the v6
I really want to get a beast
Last edited by redcamaro; 10-08-2003 at 02:03 PM.
10-08-2003, 03:10 PM
#2
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rock Hill, SC, by way of NY
Posts: 143
be prepared to drop some cash if you want an already built car, they are becoming less and less available. I paid 1500 for a shell, just keep your eyes open and you may get lucky. Parts are readily available by different companies so you are covered there, just look around and see what is available.
10-08-2003, 03:14 PM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 148
Chris pretty much summed it up. They aren't cheap, that's for sure. I'd pass on any that need body work and save yourself a lot pain and buy a 1st Gen that's been restored. Of course, that's just my opinion.
10-08-2003, 03:31 PM
#4
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 338
I picked up my Camaro for $12,000 in SC completely built. 327, M20 transmission, and a 3.23 open diff rearend. The drivetrain wasn't in the best condition and I had to have the tranny rebuilt and replace the rearend. The point is that you pay a lot for an already built car... still cheaper than buying a new (slightly used) V6 or Z28 though
10-08-2003, 05:29 PM
#5
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: huntington beach
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Thanks guys. i'll look for a restored one.
also i was checking at the california dmv and a first generation camaro doesn't required to pass smog check.
can i can run long tube headers with no cat then ???
also any differences between z28 and an ss???. i think the biggest engine available was the 396. the yenko was 427 but that would be expensive. so was this 396 available on both models???
i was checking at recycler.com here in california and i have some options (thanks god). they have from the stock appearance to some zz4 and 454 big block engines with tube chassis and everything from $8000 to $29000. i was thinking to spend like no more than $15000 for something good with a powerfull engine.
what do i need to look on one of this prep-engines cars. i don't have mechanic skills so i don't want to get a garage shop queen
also i was checking at the california dmv and a first generation camaro doesn't required to pass smog check
.can i can run long tube headers with no cat then ???
also any differences between z28 and an ss???. i think the biggest engine available was the 396. the yenko was 427 but that would be expensive. so was this 396 available on both models???
i was checking at recycler.com here in california and i have some options (thanks god). they have from the stock appearance to some zz4 and 454 big block engines with tube chassis and everything from $8000 to $29000. i was thinking to spend like no more than $15000 for something good with a powerfull engine.
what do i need to look on one of this prep-engines cars. i don't have mechanic skills so i don't want to get a garage shop queen
10-08-2003, 05:44 PM
#6
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 338
Well the stock SS's came with 350's and 396's in '67 (396's after that), the Z28 had a bad *** 302, and the plain jane had the 327. You'll never get a real Z28 with a 302 in it for $15000, so I'd give up that dream. Personally, if you can get it, get a car with a 327. It's just plainly a reliable motor, and can be tweaked way harder than a 350.
There are probably no emission laws at all, so you can do anything you want with the exhaust. I personally run my car with long hooker headers, 2.5" stainless steel pipes, and dynomax superturbo mufflers. It's the best!
There are probably no emission laws at all, so you can do anything you want with the exhaust. I personally run my car with long hooker headers, 2.5" stainless steel pipes, and dynomax superturbo mufflers. It's the best!
10-08-2003, 06:57 PM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
No CATs... never had them.
Most 67 Camaros in California came with smog pumps. (Although some didn't.) However as you found out, pre-1974 cars are currently exempt from testing. (Although some politicians are trying to change that.) Most of the early 68 Camaros didn't have smog pumps... however they're harder to authenticate especially real SS and Z/28 models... without proper documentation.
Check out the link in my signature.
The Gold 67 RS I purchased for less than $14000 back in February.
You should be able to find a solid car for well under $15000, especially in southern California.
Check out http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com
Have questions? Ask away... we're happy to help around here.
Most 67 Camaros in California came with smog pumps. (Although some didn't.) However as you found out, pre-1974 cars are currently exempt from testing. (Although some politicians are trying to change that.) Most of the early 68 Camaros didn't have smog pumps... however they're harder to authenticate especially real SS and Z/28 models... without proper documentation.
Check out the link in my signature.
The Gold 67 RS I purchased for less than $14000 back in February.
You should be able to find a solid car for well under $15000, especially in southern California.
Check out http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com
Have questions? Ask away... we're happy to help around here.
10-08-2003, 11:11 PM
#8
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 75
Stale, why do you say a 327 can be tweaked harder than a 350? I would have to disagree with that statement.
For 15,000 you should be able to find a pretty nice, drivable car. I've seen several on E-bay with 400 hp motors and overdrive automatics with no rust, decent interior and paint go for 13-17k. And dont laugh about E-bay. That's where I got my car. RamJet 350 (never cranked), no rust, new quarters and tail piece, front fender, freshly built 700-r4 (was built for a magazine shoot!), Stainless Steel Brake Co. 4-wheel disc conversion with 2" dropped spindles, new springs (front and 4-leaf rears), all new polyurethane suspension and body bushings, front/rear sway bars, new 3.73 rear end w/posi and 31-spline axles, decent paint, new undercoating, completely sandblasted and painted engine bay, new power steeringbox, and...well that's about it... literally, for 6500 off of E-bay. That's over 10 grand worth of NEW parts.
Pictures at www.geocities.com/here2ramu/camaro.html And no, the Saleen isn't mine. It's a friend's.
For 15,000 you should be able to find a pretty nice, drivable car. I've seen several on E-bay with 400 hp motors and overdrive automatics with no rust, decent interior and paint go for 13-17k. And dont laugh about E-bay. That's where I got my car. RamJet 350 (never cranked), no rust, new quarters and tail piece, front fender, freshly built 700-r4 (was built for a magazine shoot!), Stainless Steel Brake Co. 4-wheel disc conversion with 2" dropped spindles, new springs (front and 4-leaf rears), all new polyurethane suspension and body bushings, front/rear sway bars, new 3.73 rear end w/posi and 31-spline axles, decent paint, new undercoating, completely sandblasted and painted engine bay, new power steeringbox, and...well that's about it... literally, for 6500 off of E-bay. That's over 10 grand worth of NEW parts.
Pictures at www.geocities.com/here2ramu/camaro.html And no, the Saleen isn't mine. It's a friend's.
10-09-2003, 08:36 AM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 338
Stale, why do you say a 327 can be tweaked harder than a 350? I would have to disagree with that statement.
10-09-2003, 09:06 AM
#10
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 150
I paid $14,000 for mine - see sig. I see you are local. Go on eBay and look for a user seller name called classiccarofbeverlyhills or something like that. He has at any point in time half a dozen classics. I know he currently has a "supposed" numbers matching 327 68 that was around $12,000 curr bid a few days ago.
Mine is clean - not perfect but clean. That seller named Mike I mentoned above will sell you a nice clean car that isnt perfect so dont expect perfection for that price range. Paint and body and tranny and interior are probably 95% perfect.
Bought it about 2 months ago. Swapped out the duals for the Edelbrock EPS and 600 cfm combo. Replaced the radiator - which was fine - I just wanted a new one. Fixed windows and door locks. Added the floor mats and trunk mat. Will be redoing the suspension soon. Also have these very cool seat extenders that will slide the seat all the way back giving me an extra 3 inches room ( I repositioned the stock seat mounts already).
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Mine is clean - not perfect but clean. That seller named Mike I mentoned above will sell you a nice clean car that isnt perfect so dont expect perfection for that price range. Paint and body and tranny and interior are probably 95% perfect.
Bought it about 2 months ago. Swapped out the duals for the Edelbrock EPS and 600 cfm combo. Replaced the radiator - which was fine - I just wanted a new one. Fixed windows and door locks. Added the floor mats and trunk mat. Will be redoing the suspension soon. Also have these very cool seat extenders that will slide the seat all the way back giving me an extra 3 inches room ( I repositioned the stock seat mounts already).
Pic
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 5
Pic 6
10-09-2003, 11:03 AM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Stale's right of course. The 327 is the sleeper small block that no one talks about because they're too hung up on cubic inches.
If a 350 could be made to have the same performance as a 327, why then did Chevy use the 327 as the base for creating the 302? (Yeah, I know they all used the same block casting in 1967, but that's besides the point.)
Are you guys also forgetting the early-mid 60's development of the 327 as the base motor for the Corvette?
Besides, If you're looking for a streetable 1st gen small block set-up that can run strong on today's pump gas, you need to look no further than the 327-210HP long block. This 2-bbl set-up is still plentify and people are practically giving them away. Rework the heads with hardened seats for today's lead-free gas, drop in a mild cam, swap the 2-bbl cast intake for an aluminum 4-bbl intake and Q-jet and you have yourself a potent little street motor for less than the cost of most cheap rebuilt 350s.
That's what I'm planning to do with mine.
If a 350 could be made to have the same performance as a 327, why then did Chevy use the 327 as the base for creating the 302? (Yeah, I know they all used the same block casting in 1967, but that's besides the point.)
Are you guys also forgetting the early-mid 60's development of the 327 as the base motor for the Corvette?
Besides, If you're looking for a streetable 1st gen small block set-up that can run strong on today's pump gas, you need to look no further than the 327-210HP long block. This 2-bbl set-up is still plentify and people are practically giving them away. Rework the heads with hardened seats for today's lead-free gas, drop in a mild cam, swap the 2-bbl cast intake for an aluminum 4-bbl intake and Q-jet and you have yourself a potent little street motor for less than the cost of most cheap rebuilt 350s.
That's what I'm planning to do with mine.
10-09-2003, 11:06 AM
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Originally posted by stale
A 327 has nearly a mathematically perfect piston to rod ratio, so there's almost no friction from the piston against the block. You can rev em higher, run em harder, and rebuild em less. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about a 350, I'm just personally into 327's. I mean seriously, how cool is it to have an SBC that redlines just as high as an Acura RSX? Talk about some anti-rice right there.
A 327 has nearly a mathematically perfect piston to rod ratio, so there's almost no friction from the piston against the block. You can rev em higher, run em harder, and rebuild em less. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about a 350, I'm just personally into 327's. I mean seriously, how cool is it to have an SBC that redlines just as high as an Acura RSX? Talk about some anti-rice right there.
Preach on brother... preach on
10-09-2003, 03:15 PM
#15
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 75
JG, I hate to tell you bud, but the 327 and 350 blocks were exactly the same. The only difference between a 327 and 350 is the stroke. So when someone says "Oh but they used the 327 for the 302," well, if you want to look at it that way, they used the crank from a 283. If you want to talk about a small block being able to rev, slap a solid cam with a high-rase single plane, big carb and big heads, and that sucker will rev to the moon. And as far as a 327 being stronger... No. In 1969, the SBC got larger main journals, which increases strength. Pre-1969, all SBC's had the smaller journals, making them weaker. Like XcYZ said, use 6.0" rods and it will greatly reduce side loading (which is I'm sure what Stale meant by "friction"). You can make any 350 rev just as high as a 327. I know more than a few guys with built 355's that run 8000-8500 through the traps. Besides, I doubt redcamaro is looking to build a 600 HP drag motor to drop in his 1st gen. There's 5 times as many 350's out there. Parts for them are actually CHEAPER than for a 327, and they provide a better torque curve and make power lower down in the rev range than a 327, which is easier on the engine parts because you don't have to rev to 7000 to make peak horsepower.