Hi,

As you can see I'm new around here. I have a question for all you gurus out there.

I have an opportunity to buy a zz502 crate at a good price and will be installing it into a '69 Camaro. I have searched the forums, and learned a little bit, but I am looking for low 11's (or high 10's ). I'm figuring I need about 150 more horses (the car will be about 3600-3700 (just to be conservative) lbs when done). What do you all recommend? I mean, a blower might be cool, but I don't think it'll be necessary. Im certainly not opposed to it . I also want it to fit under a stock 2" cowl hood (..the SS396's had them?) so roots style blowers are out. And with the centrifugals come the money.

Also, do you think it is a good buy? I don't think I can build a big block for 5k. I am only going to take it to the strip for 5 runs a year. It will be streeted on weekends. The usually weekend cruiser/bruiser.

Thanks,
Max

 

just spray it,

 

I'm not really an N2O kind of guy.

 

The ZZ502 is overpriced. You can build a better BBC engine for less money.

 

Hey man, if you're getting a good deal on that engine then go for it. That'd b a great bracket bomber motor. Hell, you might have to slow it down just to run on an index. Like 10.90 or even 9.90. I mean, you gotta be dialed in, but those old camaros are so light that damn near anything will make 'em run. Just don't forget the frame connectors and the C-Clip eliminators. And a Moroso Brute Strength.

Sorry, I'm getting carried away...

 

I'd agree with Stephen, unless you get a smokin' deal on it I'd build something else. I ran a '66 Chevelle with a ZZ502 and Richmond 5-speed on the street a few years back against my 1977 Z-28 with 413ci small block and Vortec heads. He could *barely* keep ahead of me both from a stoplight punch and another go at a 20 mph roll-on. In fact, he only got 1/2 fender on me both times, which frankly shocked the crap out of me. My car was around a high-12 second car at the time - with tuning that same combo eventually went 12.15 on drag radials from a dead-idle launch. My 413 has cast hyper pistons and at that time was running a cheap $120 Crane cam and lifter kit.

There is no way a ZZ502 is anywhere near a 9.90 or even 10.90 motor in any year Camaro that I can see unless it has been seriously lightened. Those engines seem to be over-rated for what you pay for. I know I was very unimpressed with the ZZ502 I raced.

 

I must respectfully disagree.
I cannot speak for the car you raced, and I am assuming that we're talking about the 500hp engine in this conversation, but 500hp in a well dialed in 1st gen Camaro is going to be quick.
It's also going to be simple and surprisingly low cost. In a 1st gen you can get away with a built THM350 behind a 500hp engine. The 350 has a bad rep, but that's because it's always compared to the 400, and that ain't fair.
500hp, 3000-ish stall, built THM350, 4.56 gears, 10" slicks and some old fashioned slapper bars. (Don't forget the frame connectors, and tie down the left front suspension!)

 

Check out the latest issue of Car Craft. They have a 500+HP small block build up on the cheap.

 

yea, chevy hi performance did an article on a 75 camaro, had 550 hp, 5 speed, 4.10 rear, and 10 inch slicks, ran 10.8 all day. my opinion would be unless ur gettin the 502 for a real good price, u might wanna get a 454 gm crate motor, u can get one for 5 grand, 425 hp and 500ft lbs of torque. for not much more money u can get that bad boy over 500 hp easy., just another idea,

 

A 4.56 gear, 26x10" slick, and redline of 5800 RPM (ZZ502) would have this engine into valve-float before the 1000' mark. By way of example, I'm hitting 5900-6000 RPM at 115 mph trap speed with a 28" drag radial and 4.10 gear. A shorter tire and gear would have the 502 well out of its effective power-band by the end of the 1/4 mile.

A stock crate ZZ502 is not 10.90 power in any year Camaro, of *stock *weight*. If that was the case, that would be the hot setup for us Camaro guys. The fact is that particular engine has not really lived up to expectations. It is for this reason GM also offers it in unassembled form - so that you can change the cam and port the heads to get a much better power output.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying it's a bad engine, just that for it's displacement, cost and actual power output once installed and tuned in a vehicle, it just hasn't really impressed many folks, and it certainly is not 10-second power in a Camaro of otherwise stock vehicle weight.

That '75 Camaro example someone posted - a manual transmission is worth 2-3 tenths, so with an auto. trans that same car would probably be in the 11-flat or 11-teen range.

 

First off what do you expect from the 502? There is nothing really special about it. It has a mild roller cam, its a 9.1 motor with oval port heads, a performer rpm style intake and a holley 850. And it got 500hp out of that. Put in a better cam and you can really wake it up, not to mention what super chevy did. They put on a F1 or some big ATi SC with ~21psi and made 1300~1500 hp and ran 8's in a nova. And it was an out of the crate zz502. Thats pretty good that the factory parts can hold up to that. It was a motor designed to be driven a lot and one that could run without any problem on pump gas and still have enough power to put a smile on your face. Is it expensive? Yes it is, but think about it, its got a forgded bottom end with 4 bolt mains, aluminum heads, its a roller motor. Se how much it would cost to convert a gen IV bbc into a full roller motor. Not to mention all you do is add fuel, spark, oil and water and its running.

 

put an ls1 in it. It would be beautiful. then build up that motor. jmo. 22+ mpg 400 rwhp easy.

 

It'll give you a weekend project. you can get a donor motor and tranny with the harness for about $3500-$4000. I'm going to put one in my 71 cutlass supreme. plus theres a lot of knowledge out there to help with the conversion.

 

Respectfully, you're the one who just spec'd a 26" tall tire in that post.


Your argument seems to be that the crucial factor is the engine. Mine is that the crucial factor is the power produced. My buddy Issac says that a quarter mile run is about work, not engine model numbers.


I have a very specific recollection of an early camaro that really helped me understand the difference here.

This was a 1969 Z-28 with a 4-speed. (I can't recall if it was the 21 or 22.)
Off the showroom floor, it was running in the high 14's.
With slicks, 4.88's, a good clutch, recurved distributor, open headers, carb tuning and slapper bars it went very low 11's.

The lesson this taught me was that, although we pay a lot of lip service about getting the power to the ground, we still don't pay enough attention to that.


Again, I was not there for the race you referred to, nor do I know anything about the specific car or the engine your opponent was running.

I DO know that, assuming I am thinking about the correct engine here; we're talking about over 500lb/ft of torque, and for that matter, over 500hp.


It is my OPINION that you are allowing your legitimate experience to lead you to conclusions that are not automatically warranted.

I understand that you and I disagree about the potential of the engine in question. Please try to keep in mind that when we disagree, I am thinking in terms of available power while you are thinking in terms of particular engine.

 

I think you can if toy shop around for a decent short block to start with. The 502 is a 9:1 motor, I would build ( I did ) a 468 in the 10-10.5:1 range. I ran a power glide with a 3500-4000 stall and 5:13 rear and ran consistant 10.80's for a couple off years with that combo...in a 69 Z that weighed in at 3300.