Getting back to the original topic, agreed with Angel, put my vote in for a 400 also.

It will cost about the same to work over the 327 as a 400, so I'd opt for the extra cubes. I absolutely love the 413" (.060" over 400) in my '77. I plan to take it to the track shortly (had to put some miles on the fresh engine). The torque is incredible - it pulls like a big block. There is no substitue for cubic inches, when you are on a budget.

I have a lot done to my car so it doesn't quite fall into the low-budget category, but the engine itself is what makes the cake. Put a 400 in your car with some decent heads and cam, and it will take one heck of an LS1 to stay with you on the street, or track.



Dave

 

Until it overheats while sitting in traffic.

Then your still looking at ~12 mpg or under to run with the LS1.

Thats the best part about an LS1. mid to low 13 sec ETs totally stock in full street trim while still knocking down 26 mpg on a road trip and 18 mpg in town w/air conditioning.

 

Hmmm...well my 413 sits at 180 degrees on a hot day idling in traffic. Is that overheating?



The fuel economy wasn't the issue. The topic was how to beat an LS1. If we want to discuss the ultimate car where it concerns power, fuel mileage and comfort, I'll point you towards the 1987 Buick GN and GNX.

Dave

 

The original issue was getting a 327 to beat an LS1 also, not building a larger engine.

For the ultimate car a GNX isn't the best. They suck at autocross and road coarses unless the suspension/wheel & tire combo are modified, and they don't get much more if anymore than 26 mpg either. Not to mention their stock ET's are not faster than the LS1 cars, but they both generally run mid 13's. Then you have top end, no stock 4 spd auto can hang with a manual 6 speed there. My car can run 100 mph at just under 2000 RPM w/ 3.42 gears. Then you have the extra upkeep and maintenance that goes with having a turbo car. They also have to run super unleaded, I run 87 octane in my car all the time w/no detonation. I debated between an LS1/M6 F body or a GMC Syclone for my current ride. So I did a lot of research into GNX's and Syclones for mods, performance, maintenance, cost of running it as a daily driver and common problems. A 2000 SS won the debate.

 

Three words "BIG BLOCK CHEVY'

 

Oh yeah?

How about a 427 cubic inch LS1!!!

For a lot less money than a big block would cost, you can make a small block run with, or surpass an LS1. A big block would only be necessary to compete with a bored & stroked LS1 engine! (once "low budget engine" is thrown out the window!)

 

How about a 496 cubic inch stroker big block

My dad did his in his 69 SS camaro and puting 573 RWHP and 687 RWTQ with 4:10 gears and a M-21 for under 3,000 dollars, lets see you do a 427 cubic inch LS1 for that kind of money.

To The Big Block Chevy

 

Something is wrong with your tach or speedo calibration, because I run 83-84 mph at 2000rpm in 6th with the same setup in my '80. My cal is dead-on, according to handheld GPS and roadside "your speed is..." signs.

Here's a 327 recipe for flirting with disaster-
12.5:1 domed pistons, stock steel crank, reconditioned original rods, tunnel ram with two Holley 390s sitting on it, somebody's leftover double-humps that had been machined for big springs (and ported by someone who pretended he knew what he was doing-me), some big springs, 1.6 long slot rockers, a cam that would give a 434 small block a hard time at idle, and a big fat shot of N2O for good measure.
I put something like this together for a friend more than 12 years ago. I forget the details (mainly because I wasn't looking for them back then ), but most of these parts came from some yahoo that was getting a divorce. We threw it together, and I never could get it to idle very well, or for very long, under 2000rpm.
We put it in a '77 with an M22 and 4.56 rear, and it went 11s. Motor stayed together for more than 250 runs with my retard friend shifting above 8000rpm- 8500 most times. To this day, I'm not sure of two things-
1. How the heck that motor stayed together for so long.
2. How the heck he got a '77 to hook so well.
This car sounded so "angry" when you hit the nitrous, it was a hoot. I wish it was still around, so I could figure out all the details.
That car was hideous on the street, though. The trans synchros were basically gone, someone had put a spool in the rear, and the brakes sucked, bad, never mind the idling issue. And, it would overheat, a lot.

Todd

 

Todd, sounds like an awesome ride though.



Dave

 

Nope. No probs w/speedo. The car is a 2000....only 3 years old....w/just at 30k miles...

I was running ~1800 RPM @ 85 mph in 6th gear today. Checked it with a friends 4th gen TA w/same gears. Didn't have clear highway to run up to triple digits. W/ the OD of 6th, it'll be just under (maybe at) 2k for 100 mph. The difference may be caused by many things one of which would be aerodynamics. Your 2nd gen isn't as aerodynamic as a 4th gen causing your engine to work harder to maintain speed. The faster you go, the harder it'll have to work. Hey, another bonus for the LS1 cars!

The thread is about how to get a 327 to beat an LS1. What are you going to do, put the 327 in your trunk when you run that 496? In my 70 SS 350, I raced many guys that thought their big block was everything and beat them. Some were making some serious power, but I was pulling away from them while they were burning their tires. Power and torque are only part of the equation.

 

get a set of etec or fastburn heads highrise dual plane intake and a 270 duration cam and a stall

 

Hey ****** glad to see you and your daddy's car here. My car is still faster than yours (and soon will be faster than your daddy's).


To all the rest: how about this? Freshen the motor, add forged pistons, make sure the heads flow (mild cleanup), add a blower cam and a Weiand mini blower.
The minis are about $1900 (Part# WND-6512-1 at summit racing)and a set of pistons are a couple hundred(speedpro #TRW-L2165F30 $36 per piston at summit).

If the engine is tight you don't have to do major machine work, bolt everything together yourself and you have a killer combo that should run with or run over most anything on the street/strip.
If you are making a conservative 300 hp without the blower you should be making about 425hp with the blower.

BBB

 

The thread is about how to get a 327 to beat an LS1. What are you going to do, put the 327 in your trunk when you run that 496? In my 70 SS 350, I raced many guys that thought their big block was everything and beat them. Some were making some serious power, but I was pulling away from them while they were burning their tires. Power and torque are only part of the equation. [/B][/QUOTE]

All I have to say about the traction problem is Et Streets, and no more problems there.

BBB,

We will have to run your car and my dads against each other when you are finished up.

 

Cool! If money goes right I should have the car right in about time for the big midnight event next month. It has been super sick with exhaust leaks etc . I hope to be super-fast when it next rolls onto the track. Going up against a bad big inch big block should be pretty cool.

BBB

 

Aerodynamics has nothing to do with it. The engine is mechanically locked to the tires with any manual transmission, so there's no slip factor.

The math doesn't work here with 3.42 rears.

Using 275/40/17, it's 25.66" tall. Assuming no deflection under load, the tire will turn 785 RPM at 60mph. Multiply that by 3.42 to get 2687rpm at the driveshaft, and divide by 0.5 (6th ratio) to get 1344rpm at the engine. 2000rpm x (60mph/1344rpm) = 89.28mph.

That assumes no deflection of the tire, which is a bad assumption. Due to the load of the car compressing the sidewall, 60mph would rotate the tire more like 810rpm. That will cause 2000rpm to be at about 84-85mph.

So, either your speedo is off, or the tach is (assuming the 3.42 gear). The math doesn't lie.

Todd