Classic Engine Tech 1967 - 1981 Engine Related

454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Old 02-06-2016, 04:12 PM
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454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Hey guys just picked up a couple engines. See specs below. Kind of new to the big block world. I would like to use the 396 in my 67 Camaro because I always wanted a big block in it. The car will just be for the street. Was doing some research and found some guys consider the 454 superior to a 396. Is this true? Always thought the 454 was kind of just a work horse engine. The 454 below came out of a boat but has 396 heads. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Also does anyone know which set of heads I have are better than one another?

The 396 block took in some water at some point and the pistons are frozen to the cylinder walls so the use of the block is still up in the air. Just hoping the cylinders arent damaged beyond repair.

Thanks for the help.

396
Solid lifter cam
Stainless intake and exhaust valves
Bored .060 over to a 402
Block cast # 3916323
Head cast # 3872702 D66 GM1
3872702 D46 GM2 66 396 heads

454
New cam
New lifters
New rings
Stock bore
Block cast # 14015445
Head cast # 3931063 GM3T
GM4T 69-71 396 heads

Last edited by 67rs/ss350; 02-06-2016 at 04:13 PM. Reason: GGrammar
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:19 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

The 396 is a heavy turd...the bore is too small to allow the big block heads to flow properly due to valve shrouding. Definitely build up the 454 with the heads that are on it, it's a semi-open chamber large oval that flows well and will support 625 HP if built right.
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:54 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Ok so if I went with the 454 could I still utilize the crank to make good power? It's out of a 1986 boat so I'm concerned it's a low po motor. What's the main differences between the powerhouse 454s of the 60s and the later engines?
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:14 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Originally Posted by 67rs/ss350 View Post
Ok so if I went with the 454 could I still utilize the crank to make good power? It's out of a 1986 boat so I'm concerned it's a low po motor. What's the main differences between the powerhouse 454s of the 60s and the later engines?
Piston profile for low compression was the most common difference along with camshaft profile.

No difference in crankshaft, some of the early motors had forged ones which are obviously stronger, but the cast ones are still good to 600+ HP. The rods on some of the early HiPo motors also used 7/16th rod bolts unlike the more common 3/8" ones - upgrade with some ARP hardware if they are 3/8" bolts and you'll be fine.

How much power do you want?

A roller cam conversion is a very smart thing to do, BBC engines are prone to eating cam lobes and lifters due to poor fixturing at the factory and a zeroing out of the lobe to lifter angle so they don't rotate.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:52 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Thanks for all the information. It's been really helpful. 375-400hp would be ideal. You think I would need some domed Pistons for that?
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:29 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Originally Posted by 67rs/ss350 View Post
Thanks for all the information. It's been really helpful. 375-400hp would be ideal. You think I would need some domed Pistons for that?
With the smaller chamber heads you would want the small dome .090"-.110" domes in order to hit 10:1 or a little higher, with the right camshaft you'll easily hit your number with a 2.19"/1.88" valve conversion. You'll need to have the chambers cc'd, but they should be 105-109cc
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:30 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Thanks for the help on this. Im in the middle of tearing down the 396 since its locked up at the moment.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:09 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Cubes is king! If taking on the 200lb penalty of a BBC, make it worth your effort. 4.25 crank and an overbore gets close to 500 inches.

I'd see if the 396 heads have hard seats with the SS valves. If not, I'd sell both sets and get some thing that does. Silly to spend money on seats, big valves, the required grinding to make them breathe,
Big Block BBC Chevy Aluminum Heads 454 496 502 Oval Port Bare | eBay

Closed chamber domed pistons are common. $200 for hypereutectics and 9.5:1 can make 500hp and idle smooth.

Second on the roller setup, for mentioned plus the low-zink oils, and the obvious performance of fast ramps.
GM Performance Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Chevy BBC Gen V 454 527" 544" Lift | eBay
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:11 AM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

So I am thinking of selling the 396 Block, rods and crank. Any of those worth keeping you think? Also found this cam in the 396, is the cam worth saving for the 454?



Part Number: 134781 Grind Number: F-314-2 (REPLACES CC-314-2)

Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1967 Up CHEVROLET 8 ROUGH IDLE, MODERATE PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD MID-RANGE HP, BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/2500+ CONVERTER, 3800-4200 CRUISE RPM, 11.0 TO 12.0 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 3800-7000
Engine Size Configuration
396-454 C.I. V


Valve Setting: Intake .022 Exhaust .022 HOT


Lift: Intake @Cam 3334 @Valve 567 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 3468 @Valve 590
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70


CamTiming: TAPPET @.0136
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 47.0 BTDC 87.0 ABDC 314
Exhaust 92.0 BBDC 52.0 ATDC 324


Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99893
Loads Closed 120 [email protected] 1.875 or 1 7/8
Open 328 [email protected] 1.335

Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3800
Maximum RPM 7000
Valve Float 7400


CamTiming: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 19.0 BTDC 49.0 ABDC 105 248
Exhaust 64.0 BBDC 14.0 ATDC 115 258


Remarks:
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:36 AM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

That's a pretty wild cam. I'd sell it and run what the 454 has, or a suitable aftermarket hydraulic. Hyd roller if the budget allows. The solid is only $130 new, so unless the 454 has big domes and you really want to fuss with valve lash, dump it.
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:20 AM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Thanks for the info. I want to part with the 396 based on our discussions. The crank in the 396 is a "7115". Apparently it's a 427 crank? Worth keeping for my 454 or sell? What's it worth you think?
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:56 AM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

It's a good steel 3.76 stroke crank, but of no real use unless you have some 427 pistons to destroke the 454. Sell it, IMO. 409/348 guys like them for adding stroke after turning the mains and snout. It's typically counterweighted/balanced for the heavy 7/16 rods and forged domed slugs. 1960's tech.

BBC TWO PIECE REAR MAIN OIL SEALS
3.76" STROKE used on '65-'90 Mark IV 366T, 396, 402, 427 or 427T

6223.......396,402,427...forged, 1053 steel
7115.......396,402,427...forged, nitrided, cross-drilled, 5140 steel
3804816....396,402,427...cast
3856223....396...forged
3863114....402...
3863144....396,402...
3874874....396,402...
3879621....427...forged
3882841....396...forged, cross drilled, nitrided
3882842....427...forged, cross drilled, nitrided
3882847....
3882848....
3882849....427...forged
3887114....396...forged, nitrided, 5140 steel
3904815....396,402...cast, nodular iron
3941180....
3942411....
3965746..........semi finished, forged
3993804..........raw, 5140 steel

A cast crank, 3/8 rod 454 with oval port heads, tight squish and modern cam can make big power and be easy to live with. Not sure what the parameters of the project are, but one mild build: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...-engine-build/

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Old 03-03-2016, 12:13 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

Thanks for the information. Not racing the car just want a nice street machine. Looking for between 400-450HP. I was told that 396 had Stainless valves but the heads also have some sitting water rust. Those heads are the cast # 3872702 D66 GM1. I should just let go of those as well? Focusing on getting some money back before the 454 build but Id hate to sell something I need later on. That's why so many questions lol
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Old 03-03-2016, 01:02 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

If they have hardened exhaust seats, especially if big valves, I'd keep them, to save effort. If not bigger valves, maybe put those valves in a set of bare later-model heads that have hard seats and the better-breathing open chambers. 9-9.5 is all the squeeze you need. Some of the early BBC stuff pulls good prices. Cheap, new aluminum heads are $700/pr bare. You could spend nearly as much dolling up the dinosaurs. Does the 454 need to be rebuilt? I'd put pen to paper, formulate a plan, price it out completely, and see what will serve you best. If it needs pistons and a crank grind, 4.25 cranks are under $400. A set of .125 over flat-top slugs and 511ci can make 500hp/550torque and never break a sweat, on horse **** fuel.
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Old 03-03-2016, 01:31 PM
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Re: 454 and 396 just purchased. Have some questions.

The 454 looks like it was essentially "gone through" by the previous owner but never fully assembled to spec nor run. Internals are clean and it wasn't bored out. When it gets built it needs to be like boiled out because the water jackets are pretty rough. Possibly from salt water being a boat motor. The guy kept it put in a truck but eventually sold truck.
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