Lions3

I started selling car audio for a living, and I couldn't be happier. Here's the dilemna though.

My old system:

Alpine 9813
Alpine SPR-175's
Alpine SWR-1041D (x2)
MTX 4202
MTX 6500D

I sold everything but the amps, and I may sell those too. I was satisfied with the system, but the problem I had was that the sound stage lacked real focus. My biggest problem was with the mid-bass response and the midrange to low bass transition tended to audibly move from the front to the rear.

So, to eliminate this, I want to start from the ground up. My main system goals are to be:

-Extremely strong and focused sound stage
-Completely accurate full-range music reproduction at concert-level volume
-Budget of 4500$

I think my budget will break down like this:

Deck: 900$
Speakers: 500$
Subs: 1000$
Amplification: 1500$
Installation (Including Cabling): 600$

I think it's a fair break down. I have access to Clarion, Alpine, Eclipse, Kenwood, JL and Sony. Here's what I'm thinking so far.

Deck: Either Clarion 9255 or Eclipse 8454. The 8454 is a little cheaper, but it seems the Clarion would sound better. I'm not too crazy about going Alpine again after I heard about their lackluster pre-out performance.

Speakers: Either Alpine SPX177A's or JL XR650CSI's. I've heard both and like both, but I'm not sure which would sound better in car. On top of that, to make things sorta "match", I'd like the same brand in front as in the back.

Subs: We're still waiting to get the Alpine Type X subs in stock, but the JL W7's (or even the W6's) offer more than I could ever need. If I go JL, I'm thinking of going with one 12W7 in the back, and 1-2 8W0's up front bandpassed at 50-100hz. I have to hear the MTX 9500's before I even consider them, because knowing MTX subs, they'll be more for SPL than SQ. But they do look menacing!

http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/images/H...oofers_600.jpg

Amplification: For amps, this is where I don't know where to go. If I go Type X, they need a LOT of power to operate. Rated sensitivity is only 83db's. I want to run my amps at a 4 ohm load to keep damping high. I know I'm supposed to be a salesman, but I'm trying to decide which amps to combine to get what I want. My speaker setup will most likely consist of a component set up front, 1-2 8" sub, and a single 12" sub. For example, if I go MTX I would need an 801D, and a 504. I *really* like the slash amps from JL, but I have to figure out how to fit them into the budget

Install I can get a good deal on. I'll be running 10 ga for the components, 8 ga for the subs. 4 ga should suffice for the amps, possibly go 0/1. Interconnects will be from JL or Monster. Whichever has the best deal

So lemme know what you think. I spent a big wad of cash on my home audio setup to get that little extra percent of sweetness from my speakers, namely going from integrated to seperates.

Brewha863

I have an Alpine 7995 that's awesome! No internal amp and it kicks such ***, much better than the Eclipse I used to have. Clarions are cool, my best friend has one in his Camaro, but it just skips a lot and doesn't read some burnt CDs well, even though it plays MP3s. Also on sounddomain.com they have awesome deals on Rockford Fosgate head units that are one of the best SQ units around, they're actually manufactured by Denon for them! I would get one if not for the fact that I need a sub amp more.

I also have a set of SPX-173 components in the front -- amazing! They're driven by an Xtant 403a -- not a lot of money, but awesome SQ amp! I have two Xtant 124 hex subs that are crazy for SQ too, just need a good amp on it (have an Ulitimate amp right now that's ok, but it's a class T and I really want a class D for subs).

So my advice is all Alpine, with maybe a sprinkle of Xtant

Gord

What does no internal amp mean? That it relies on another amp to deliver power? or something?

Brewha863

Yeah the head unit doesn't make any power, you have to have amps to power your speakers. The good thing about that is that (a) external amps have much better SQ than the amps built into head units, (b) the head unit has much better SQ because it doesn't build up a lot of heat trying to use its amp, and (c) since there's no amp in it, more of the space can be used for more processing equipment, making the deck a triple threat on the SQ battlefield.

The Rockford deck is basically the same thing, but it has even more SQ features. The only thing is that there's not a lot that you can do to tweak your system from the head unit on the Rockford deck, while there is on the Alpine. If you really like to tweak your system a lot, I would get a high-end Clarion head unit, you can adjust bass and treble, but also midrange, and it has by far the best EQ of any popular head unit company.

Gord

I read that the Alpine deck has a time correction feature? how is it? I'm actually pretty interested in it

Brewha863

It's definately a great tool, but my components have time-correction features, so I really don't need the feature.

rthompson

never heard of that on the components.... what kind do you have?

rthompson

Sounds like a lot of opinion there..... or do you have proof that the Clarion has the best EQ?

rthompson

If you got a class T why the hell would you want a class D? There is no benefit that a class D has over a class T that i am aware of, well with the exception of maybe strappability.

rthompson

i got a quick question Lions3.... are you looking to have a system made up of stuff you sell? kind of a demo system?

Brewha863

I want a class D because they have a lot more punch than a class T amp does, at least more punch than my Ultimate amp. It takes power to make power, and when you're already running at 70-80% of the amp's capacity under normal usage, when those bursts of power in the music come along, you don't really get it like you do with a class D. Plus it would help as far as looks go if I had an Xtant 1001.

The comment on the Clarion being the "best EQ" is obviously an opinon, you don't really have to point that out. If we're talking straight facts, than it gives you about 50% more options than most head unit EQs because it also includes midrange frequencies, not just "treble" and "bass".

The components are Alpine Type-X, they're supposedly made, according to Alpine, as "phase-correcting speakers". I would believe it because we played around with time correction on the head unit and while there was a noticable difference, all it really did was mess up what is already great imaging. I think it has a lot to do with the crossovers from the Type-X components; they are already labeled "left" and "right", and we hooked them up backwards to see what would happen, the imaging was horrible, but when wired correctly it's almost perfect -- but don't quote me on that.

rthompson

I have run big class A-B amps, class D and T amps and i can garantee that you don't lose any "punch" when you have a class T compared to a D... Or A-B for that matter. Power is power and if the amp puts out the power it claims then you won't notice a difference between one and the other. My guessss is that it is solely because it is an Ultimate amp and not putting out the power that it claims and not because it is a class T.

Ted J

Where are you planning on installing the speakers at in the car? Path lenghts is the major thing to factor in here when dealing with imaging and soundstage and speaker placement is how you get your path length difference to be as small as possible. There's also the center console and the bottom of the dash to factor in also but we won't even go into that this time around!

That takes power and speakers that can handle the power. I sat in a car at last years IASCA World Finals where he had JL amps and JL speakers in the car. He had kick speakers and also two component sets in his doors if I remember right. His car could go loud, I never took it all that loud but he noted that he likes his music loud (had a few tickets from the cops becaues of it) so it sounds like those JL Audio components can crank. I don't know JL's component models all that well but I don't think he was using their top line speakers but I don't recall what line they were.

I might get a chance to listen to some JL Audio components this weekend in a car so I'm looking forward to hearing how they sound. I don't like my music all that loud though (I jam a little but no where near concert levels) so I won't be the greatest judge in that area.


Are you going to install the stuff yourself or pay somebody else do to it? Wondering if that is total cost of equipment or including labor. If it's just for equipment you should be able to put together a killer combo for that price.

Ted J

Well, in most cases that's your only option, to run 4 ohms speakers. My mids are 2 ohms and I don't think anybody could guess that they are the 2 omh model by listening to them. As long as you have an amp that is 2 ohm stable it should be able to handle the speakers just fine at 2 ohms or 4 ohms.

Ted J

The Eclispe (8XXX model that I looked at) unit if I'm not mistaken has like a 10 band EQ in it. It might need an external processor or something else you need to buy to make it work but I'm pretty sure it had something like that in it. The sales guy didn't even know about it but I found it playing around with the features. Just something to look into to see if what I saw was the case if you are interested in the Eclispe unit.

I don't have any experience with the Clarion units so I can't say much for them but the Eclispe unit's are nice. Don't perfectly like the user intereface of how you change things like tracks and fast forwarding and rewinding on the CD Player but that's just a personal preference type thing.