Lighting gurus, lend me your expertise...
Lighting gurus, lend me your expertise...
Okay, so I have a set of Hella 90mm modules (these> http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=128 )
With them I currently have 35W H9 bulbs. They don't put out enough light and I am going to go the HID route with them. My question is, with that perticular model projector, what is the brightest HID I can use? Ideally I would love to do the D2S HID's, but I think they won't work in my module, and they require a different sized Projector.
Anyone know what will work in my application the best/brightest/most lumens?
With them I currently have 35W H9 bulbs. They don't put out enough light and I am going to go the HID route with them. My question is, with that perticular model projector, what is the brightest HID I can use? Ideally I would love to do the D2S HID's, but I think they won't work in my module, and they require a different sized Projector.
Anyone know what will work in my application the best/brightest/most lumens?
Why not just get an HID Conversion Kit: Xenon Experts DDM Conversion Kits
I have this kit in a 55 Watt 5000K installed in my older Subaru and it really is nice. Now I'm willing to bet that in a Projector such as the Hella you have, a 35 Watt kit would really do well.
Not terribly expensive, and should really fit the bill
I have this kit in a 55 Watt 5000K installed in my older Subaru and it really is nice. Now I'm willing to bet that in a Projector such as the Hella you have, a 35 Watt kit would really do well.
Not terribly expensive, and should really fit the bill
Why not just get an HID Conversion Kit: Xenon Experts DDM Conversion Kits
I have this kit in a 55 Watt 5000K installed in my older Subaru and it really is nice. Now I'm willing to bet that in a Projector such as the Hella you have, a 35 Watt kit would really do well.
Not terribly expensive, and should really fit the bill
I have this kit in a 55 Watt 5000K installed in my older Subaru and it really is nice. Now I'm willing to bet that in a Projector such as the Hella you have, a 35 Watt kit would really do well.
Not terribly expensive, and should really fit the bill

Their kits are only $70 (not $250 like the DDM website you posted up), and I can get a kit that has 5000+ lumens (2000 more than the DDM one).
I think I found what I needed, now I just need to figure out if 5000 lumens is too much.
5000+ lumens is ridiculous.... the average auto headlight is ~1,000 I've got 9011 bulbs for High Beams in our new Subaru, ad they are rated at ~4000 lumens. Daylight.... But there is NO WAY you can use these with oncoming traffic... Again in a Projector Light I'd say 35 Watt is going to be absolutely fine.
PS that's XenonExperts generic pricing, here's a link to the LegacyGT Forum Pricing: Legacy GT Kit Pricing
These also include a Life Time Warranty, and the Battery Harness as well which is $25 on the site you posted. Don't get me wrong, if you can find the kits cheaper elsewhere go for it, but Xenon Expert is really good to deal with if you have any issues, and is willing to answer questions as needed.
Enjoy the HIDs, it's really pretty cool
PS that's XenonExperts generic pricing, here's a link to the LegacyGT Forum Pricing: Legacy GT Kit Pricing
These also include a Life Time Warranty, and the Battery Harness as well which is $25 on the site you posted. Don't get me wrong, if you can find the kits cheaper elsewhere go for it, but Xenon Expert is really good to deal with if you have any issues, and is willing to answer questions as needed.
Enjoy the HIDs, it's really pretty cool
5000+ lumens is ridiculous.... the average auto headlight is ~1,000 I've got 9011 bulbs for High Beams in our new Subaru, ad they are rated at ~4000 lumens. Daylight.... But there is NO WAY you can use these with oncoming traffic... Again in a Projector Light I'd say 35 Watt is going to be absolutely fine.
PS that's XenonExperts generic pricing, here's a link to the LegacyGT Forum Pricing: Legacy GT Kit Pricing
These also include a Life Time Warranty, and the Battery Harness as well which is $25 on the site you posted. Don't get me wrong, if you can find the kits cheaper elsewhere go for it, but Xenon Expert is really good to deal with if you have any issues, and is willing to answer questions as needed.
Enjoy the HIDs, it's really pretty cool
PS that's XenonExperts generic pricing, here's a link to the LegacyGT Forum Pricing: Legacy GT Kit Pricing
These also include a Life Time Warranty, and the Battery Harness as well which is $25 on the site you posted. Don't get me wrong, if you can find the kits cheaper elsewhere go for it, but Xenon Expert is really good to deal with if you have any issues, and is willing to answer questions as needed.
Enjoy the HIDs, it's really pretty cool

I am still up in the air as far as lumens go. I want something bright. I already have HID's in my Camaro, but its not through a projector and I know that makes a difference. Be that as it is, I really want my lights to be bright. One of the 2 buddies has the 3000 lumen set. He's going to post pictures to show me. I'll probably be able to make my choice then.
Thanks for the info, but I think I got what I need as of now. It's now just a matter on how bright I want things.
Re-based "HID" kits in halogen optics is EXTREMELY 
Please read this: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

Please read this: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html
"Awesome" does not equal good. The problem is that halogen and HID optics are extremely different and what you're doing creates terribly unfocused light output, hot spots, a very poor and undefined cutoff, and often causes extreme glare for oncoming drivers. You'd know things like that if you'd bothered to read from that link I posted. You're also not concerned with any of those things either, as long as it looks "awesome".
"Awesome" does not equal good. The problem is that halogen and HID optics are extremely different and what you're doing creates terribly unfocused light output, hot spots, a very poor and undefined cutoff, and often causes extreme glare for oncoming drivers. You'd know things like that if you'd bothered to read from that link I posted. You're also not concerned with any of those things either, as long as it looks "awesome".
I'm familiar with the Hella projectors, but you obviously are not. Just because it is a projector doesn't mean it's automatically HID. Many cars come with halogen projectors, like the last generation Integra, many 05+ Subarus, and also many Hyundai models. Also, true HID bulbs ONLY come in D2S or D2R. All the rest of these kits are just re-based halogen setups. I highly recommend you go to HIDplanet.com and start reading up on proper retrofits.
Keep in mind I'm not saying all this to be an *******. I've been researching retrofits for a while now for both of my cars. I've seen people have great results with those Hellas, but they were using halogen bulbs, like the Osram Nightbreakers. For my retro, I'm looking at using a Honda S2000 setup to replace my low beams, or maybe an Infiniti FX35 bi-xenon setup to replace the lows and highs. Enough about what I'm doing though. I'm just trying to inform you here.
Dude, no offense, but if you had done any kind of decent research, you'd know that Hella projectors are some of the best money can buy. The projector is just the projector, it has nothing to do with the type of bulb you put in it. If you do put a quality HID in it from the website I posted from (yes they have D2S HID's which are clearly stated on thier website), then they have some of the best results money can buy.
You've got to be kidding me...
Here's the description of your projector
Again, read the link I posted.
Also, if you think that the projector itself has absolutely nothing to do with it at all, then you're truly showing just how ignorant you are about this.
Here's a little excerpt from Hella's website that can be found here.
Here's the description of your projector
HL68137 Projector Headlamp, 90mm Low Beam Module, each. DOT Halogen H9
This high performance headlamp is designed specifically for custom applications. It is a weatherproof, and easily mounted to any vertical surface.
Includes:
Lamp,
H9 Halogen bulb
Adjuster Screw Kit.
$59.75
This high performance headlamp is designed specifically for custom applications. It is a weatherproof, and easily mounted to any vertical surface.
Includes:
Lamp,
H9 Halogen bulb
Adjuster Screw Kit.
$59.75
So you've read about HID headlamps and have it in mind to convert your car. A few mouse clicks on the web, and you've found a couple of outfits offering to sell you a "conversion" that will fit any car with a given type of halogen bulb. STOP! Put away that credit card.
An HID kit consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for "retrofitting" into a halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit! Real Hella kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of legitimacy. Fact: While some of the components in these kits are sometimes manufactured by the companies mentioned, the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. never endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.
Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.
A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.
This diagram shows the very different characteristics of the filament vs. the arc:

When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are the driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.
An HID kit consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for "retrofitting" into a halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit! Real Hella kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of legitimacy. Fact: While some of the components in these kits are sometimes manufactured by the companies mentioned, the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. never endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.
Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.
A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.
This diagram shows the very different characteristics of the filament vs. the arc:

When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are the driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.
Here's a little excerpt from Hella's website that can be found here.
Illegal Xenon retrofitting is dangerous and illegal
Vehicle certification loses validity, insurance protection is restricted - up to 100 times higher glare values
Article of 10.10.2002
Lippstadt, October 2002. People who just buy a xenon headlamp set including cables, xenon light source and ballast, remove the halogen bulb from the headlamp, saw a hole in the cover cap, insert the xenon ulb in the reflector and connect the electronic ballast with the on-board power supply are endangering other road users through extreme glare and are acting against the law: the vehicle certification loses its validity and insurance protection is restricted. Only complete, type-approved xenon headlamp sets including an automatic headlamp levelling and lens cleaning system are legal.
This is why it is illegal to make a halogen headlamp into a xenon headlamp:
In Europe only complete xenon headlamp systems may be retrofitted. They comprise a set of type-approved headlamps (with the E1 mark on the outer lens, for example), an automatic headlamp levelling device and lens cleaning equipment (compulsory according to ECE regulation R48 and § 50 STVO, section 10(Germany only)).
Every headlamp is given its type approval together with the light source (halogen or xenon) it is operated with. If the light source is replaced by one which is neither type-approved nor designed for the type approval of the headlamp, this type approval becomes invalid, as, consequently, does the vehicle's certification (§19 STVZO, section 2, sentence 2, no. 1(Germany only). Driving without vehicle certification leads to restrictions of insurance protection (§ 5, section 1, no. 3 KfzPflVV(Germany only)). People who sell such non-type-approved lighting equipment must expect claims for damage from buyers. Because in passing on these parts, the seller not only takes over the guarantee that they may only be used for the designed purpose but also, under some circumstances, damage risks to an unlimited amount. High glare values: From measurements made under laboratory conditions Hella specialists have found that the active beam pattern of a headlamp developed for halogen bulbs, but operated illegally with a xenon light source, no longer corresponds to the originally calculated values. In the case of reflection systems, glare values have been measured which exceed the permissible limiting values 100 times over. The headlamps of these vehicles no longer have a cut-off line and cannot be adjusted either. The glare values correspond to the those of driving lamps. This puts other road users in great danger.
Vehicle certification loses validity, insurance protection is restricted - up to 100 times higher glare values
Article of 10.10.2002
Lippstadt, October 2002. People who just buy a xenon headlamp set including cables, xenon light source and ballast, remove the halogen bulb from the headlamp, saw a hole in the cover cap, insert the xenon ulb in the reflector and connect the electronic ballast with the on-board power supply are endangering other road users through extreme glare and are acting against the law: the vehicle certification loses its validity and insurance protection is restricted. Only complete, type-approved xenon headlamp sets including an automatic headlamp levelling and lens cleaning system are legal.
This is why it is illegal to make a halogen headlamp into a xenon headlamp:
In Europe only complete xenon headlamp systems may be retrofitted. They comprise a set of type-approved headlamps (with the E1 mark on the outer lens, for example), an automatic headlamp levelling device and lens cleaning equipment (compulsory according to ECE regulation R48 and § 50 STVO, section 10(Germany only)).
Every headlamp is given its type approval together with the light source (halogen or xenon) it is operated with. If the light source is replaced by one which is neither type-approved nor designed for the type approval of the headlamp, this type approval becomes invalid, as, consequently, does the vehicle's certification (§19 STVZO, section 2, sentence 2, no. 1(Germany only). Driving without vehicle certification leads to restrictions of insurance protection (§ 5, section 1, no. 3 KfzPflVV(Germany only)). People who sell such non-type-approved lighting equipment must expect claims for damage from buyers. Because in passing on these parts, the seller not only takes over the guarantee that they may only be used for the designed purpose but also, under some circumstances, damage risks to an unlimited amount. High glare values: From measurements made under laboratory conditions Hella specialists have found that the active beam pattern of a headlamp developed for halogen bulbs, but operated illegally with a xenon light source, no longer corresponds to the originally calculated values. In the case of reflection systems, glare values have been measured which exceed the permissible limiting values 100 times over. The headlamps of these vehicles no longer have a cut-off line and cannot be adjusted either. The glare values correspond to the those of driving lamps. This puts other road users in great danger.
I suggest you read these too, instead of replying with your ignorant "facts"
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664361
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664361
Look dude, I have already done my homework on this. Somehow you feel it necissary to broadcast it on here that you have as well.
Lets just agree to disagree on this one, as I have already found what I was looking for when I created this thread, and you certainly are not helping me on this.
Lets just agree to disagree on this one, as I have already found what I was looking for when I created this thread, and you certainly are not helping me on this.


