Car Audio and Electronics Custom car audio/electronics questions and discussion

capacitor

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 16, 2006 | 10:21 AM
  #1  
radarb8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 104
From: Moose Jaw Sk Canada
Question capacitor

I have had a 1 faret cap in my camaro. Do these caps wear out over time and if so what are the signs of a bad cap?
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 06:45 AM
  #2  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

A 1 farad capacitor (or any value for that matter) is a waste of time and money. If you have a problem with dimming lights on loud bass hits upgrade to a high output alternator. You can use the cap as a door stop.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 07:09 AM
  #3  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

I disagree. A high-output alternator puts more load on the engine, so if you care about your car's acceleration ability, a cap would be a better option.

You'd probably only lose 1-2hp, but it's still a loss. It all depends on your priorities.

Caps can wear out over time. They make capacitor testing devices, but I've never encountered one that could handle a cap anywhere near that big.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 08:03 AM
  #4  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

I'd like to see the documentation proving that an HO alt is more of a load on the engine than the stock alt is.

A cap is ONLY good if your stereo draws only slightly more current than your car's charging system can deliver. If the stereo draws more than the charging system can deliver the cap becomes more of a load on the charging system which negates any benefits it might have. In fact it will do more harm than good since the batery will be discharging (when it should be charging) trying to make up the difference that the cap cannot meet. This will eventually shorten the lifespan of the battery. Like I've always said a cap is a band-aid while an HO alt is the cure.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 08:16 AM
  #5  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

Originally Posted by LS1 RULZ
I'd like to see the documentation proving that an HO alt is more of a load on the engine than the stock alt is.
Where do you think the extra energy comes from? I don't have specific documentation, but the Law of Conservation of Energy comes to mind. I have seen a setup where heavy bass hits would stall the engine if it wasn't revved up.

A cap is ONLY good if your stereo draws only slightly more current than your car's charging system can deliver. If the stereo draws more than the charging system can deliver the cap becomes more of a load on the charging system which negates any benefits it might have. In fact it will do more harm than good since the batery will be discharging (when it should be charging) trying to make up the difference that the cap cannot meet. This will eventually shorten the lifespan of the battery. Like I've always said a cap is a band-aid while an HO alt is the cure.
A cap gives the alternator more time to generate the necessary power. When your only priority is the stereo, you're absolutely right that a high-current alternator is the solution. But if you feel that horsepower is more important than stereo performance, a capacitor is the appropriate solution for your specific case.

If the cap can't make up the difference, it isn't big enough. I've seen 45-farad caps... there might even be bigger ones on the market.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 08:21 AM
  #6  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

The energy comes from the extra windings inside the alt.

Larger caps are simply market hype for those that think if some is good then more must be better. Just like 3,4 and 5-way speakers.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 09:47 AM
  #7  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

Originally Posted by LS1 RULZ
The energy comes from the extra windings inside the alt.
The extra windings inside the alternator create a stronger magnetic field which the engine must overcome.

Originally Posted by LS1 RULZ
Larger caps are simply market hype for those that think if some is good then more must be better. Just like 3,4 and 5-way speakers.
Most systems won't make use of a 0.5 farad cap, so that's true. However, unlike 5-way speakers, there are systems that actually benefit from more capacitance.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 10:45 AM
  #8  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

Well I still don't think an HO alt is enough to make enough difference no matter how you look at it. An besides, and I think you'll agree with me here, anyone that is worried about a 1 or 2 HP loss isn't going to have a fully blown after-market stereo system in their car anyway.

I will disagree with you on the multi-way speaker system though till I'm blue in the face. A 6-1/2" mid-woofer and a 1" tweeter are more than enough to cover the audible spectrum of sound. There is no need for what amounts to a mid-woofer and multiple tweeters no matter what anyone says. It is and always will be marketing BS. And as long as there are people in the world that think more is better then the industry will continue to make them. Same goes for men's razors. I wonder how long it will take for Schick or Gillette to come out with a 10 blade razor.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 11:09 AM
  #9  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

Originally Posted by LS1 RULZ
Well I still don't think an HO alt is enough to make enough difference no matter how you look at it. An besides, and I think you'll agree with me here, anyone that is worried about a 1 or 2 HP loss isn't going to have a fully blown after-market stereo system in their car anyway.
I'm sure there are people that are worried about it... but I won't comment on what I think of those people's ability to prioritize.

Originally Posted by LS1 RULZ
I will disagree with you on the multi-way speaker system though
No, you won't. But you did misread something I wrote if you think we disagree. Two-way speakers are just fine.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 12:07 PM
  #10  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

My bad, I mis-read your post.
Old Mar 17, 2006 | 10:49 PM
  #11  
1FstFormulaV8's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 447
From: Portsmouth, Ohio
Re: capacitor

Caps are a waste. 1 Farad is pointless. A cap acts nothing more than a buffer.
Old Mar 18, 2006 | 07:59 AM
  #12  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

Originally Posted by 1FstFormulaV8
Caps are a waste. 1 Farad is pointless. A cap acts nothing more than a buffer.
It's a buffer with a faster discharge rate than the buffer provided by the battery, allowing big bass hits to draw all of the power they need without affecting the rest of the car's electrical system.

I'll agree that most systems don't need a cap, but they do have a purpose and some systems will benefit from one; they certainly won't hurt anything (except possibly your wallet). "Waste" and "pointless" are too strong to use unqualified.
Old Mar 18, 2006 | 08:42 AM
  #13  
LS1 RULZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,858
From: OHIO Go Buckeyes!
Re: capacitor

They will definitely "hurt" if the current demands placed on the charging system are more than what the cap can make up for. And 99 times out of 100 that will be the case. I will stick to my guns on this issue till the day I die. Caps are a waste of money. And larger ones with their higher ESR are not going to be the miracle cure-all that many people seem to think they are. If you believe in snake oil remedies then by all means spend as much money on one as you wish. I have better things to spend my money on.
Old Mar 18, 2006 | 11:15 AM
  #14  
VTsullyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 106
From: 50% Harrisonburg / 50% Blacksburg VA
Re: capacitor

A cap is a band aid. Where as a HO alt is the solution. I am with LS1 with it notting adding more strain on the engine. They dont add more resistance when they add power just more loops of copper.
Old Mar 18, 2006 | 12:10 PM
  #15  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: capacitor

Those additional loops of copper create a larger, stronger magnetic field, which the engine must overcome in order to spin the alternator.

It's small, but there is a difference in the power draw placed on the engine by a high-output alternator.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
sc1twntrbo
Car Audio and Electronics
20
Jun 12, 2005 10:45 PM
KillerTA
Car Audio and Electronics
11
May 11, 2004 10:23 PM
95BlackTA
LT1 Based Engine Tech
5
Mar 30, 2004 08:16 PM
bighurt1
Car Audio and Electronics
5
Jul 23, 2003 10:16 PM
99gatorbird
Car Audio and Electronics
4
Mar 27, 2003 12:05 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.