First we we're talking about a Zeta platform built in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. Then it was a lengthened Kappa platform, most likely to be assembled Willmington, Delaware. Now we have the visible proof of a stretched Kappa in the Torana TT36. Shucks, it kinda looks like enlarged Lexus IS300 (Toyota Altezza) with proportions that are closer to the FM-platform (Front Mid-Engined) Infiniti G35 sedan. Is this Pontiac's idea of an "entry level" Sunfire successor?

What it comes down to is that the "stretched" version of the Kappa (the Torana concept) seems to overlap in size with the "chopped" version of the Zeta (the Buick Velite concept).

So where exactly does this leave a potential Camaro replacement? From what I've seen of the Torana TT36, this car is a potential alternative to the Epsilon based Vectra in the Australian market. A smaller, more downmarket RWD car built on the same production line as the future Commodore makes alot of sense for the Australian market, assuming you can get the costs right. Maybe the Torana could be an Opel/Vauxhall badged BMW 1-series fighter in Europe, despite being nearly a foot-and-a-half longer than the little Beemer. However, I don't immediately see how the Torana - or it's equivilent - would be marketed in the United States. I also don't see the clear proof that we have a Kappa-based Camaro on the way.

Zeta...Kappa...

What's up?

 

One thing about the Torana's platform....anything built on that won't be produced at Holden's current plant. It will be at capacity. It would need to be produced here.

 

[speculation]Zeta is a large RWD platform with a lot of volume coming from large RWD sedans.

The next GTO and Rivera are based on Zeta and though it is modular, but of these are roughly in the same size/weight class as the current GTO.

Chevy has a sister coupe that is mechanically the same as the Riviera and GTO. For it to be a Camaro, GM would have to "nip and tuck" and use styling tricks to make it seem smaller than the GTO. Major changes at the architecture level to make a Zeta Camaro smaller than the GTO are almost out of the question. This also means that without extensive use of aluminum the Zeta Camaro would very likely weigh more than a 4th gen.

The Chevy Zeta Coupe wearing Camaro styling did great in clinics and was instantly identifiable as a Camaro (though larger and more in teh 5th gen sense). All of the sudden however GM is doing a quick redesign and refering to Chevy's Zeta coupe as "Chevy's GTO". Only reason I could see for this is that they are gonna call it something else, or they are trying to save weight.

The Torana's new platform is perfect for the Camaro provided it can #1-Fit a V8 and all the necessary muscle car hardware. #2-Get to market close in enough time to stem off the hate that will occur when they roll out a Chevy Coupe not named Camaro. If given a choice of platforms for the Camaro with no other concerns, but which would be most proper, the Torana wins hands down. It is smaller, has much lower weight, and appears to have hardpoints that would be more hospitable to the Camaro design heritage.

As much as Z284EVER wants it, if there are two lower cost RWD chassis (Zeta and Torana), I can really see no business case for using your most expensive RWD platform on your cheapest (excluding Kappa) RWD car.

Now again, these are all just rumors at this point. People say the Zeta coupe is set in stone but I am not quite buying that yet. It is a bit early to be set in stone considering the car is still 2-3 years out depending on who you listen to. GM claims they can design a new car from scratch in nearly that much time. Also if it was so set in stone, GM would not have time to do a quick design, and there would not be an overall rush to the program to keep it from falling back another MY.

Things change daily at GM anymore it seems. One day's set in stone news is completly different a month later. If you think in this fast paced, on the fly decision making atmosphere that someone at GM didn't see the Torana and scratch thier head and say what if, you are not being that much credit.[/speculation]


That being said, my offical line is "There will be a Chevy coupe based on the Zeta architecture around mid 07 MY."

 

This just occured to me...What if they gave this Chevy coupe a different name, and one of the top performance models of it is called "Camaro." That way we still get our Camaro but people don't have to get upset if the Chevy coupe doesn't exactly fit Camaro specifications because its really a Chevy coupe, and Camaro is just a trim level on it. [/shot in the dark]

 

Today as we speak, not so much set in stone as set in clay.

 

Would it be completely ridiculous to say that we might get a Chevelle and then a Camaro a few years afterwards?

 

detail details...

 

I like Laguna better than Chevelle. Really, I'm not kidding.

Chevy La-goo-na. Just rolls off your tongue.

 

There is no reason that the 5th Gen Camaro couldn't have been developed alongside the Torana. Didn't Vaxhaull (sp.) want a kappa that could have a V8. Its very Possible that Camaro was going to be on this platform all along. Or that we will be getting a re-skinned Vaxhaull (sp.) If they get there V8 Coupe.

I dont see how this could slow down the release of a Camaro. 80% of the work is already done by Holden and other overseas GM Companys. Its very Possible that we might see 2 Chevy Coupes or that the "Zeta based Camaro" will go to another brand and we will get a smaller Torana based Camaro.

What I do know is that someone needs to make a freaking S197 Mustang competitor. There is room in the marketplace for one and Ford needs a rival. How long will the general non enthusiast public care about the Camaro name. Any longer than 2008 and I feel it would be better to just let the Camaro name go. This would be a horrible thing for us, but GM might be better off. As the Camaros get older and more abused start breaking it can leave a bad taste in peoples minds.

 

All of this really starting to make no sense.

Back in the early to mid nineties GM was working on a versatile, global, RWD architecture that was supposed to spawn a surprising combination of vehicles. In reality, this plan "evolved" into Sigma. Which, as we know, is an expesive, non-versatile platform only suited for luxury cars with very high cowl heights.

More recently, there have been rumblings of Zeta. A so called global RWD architecture that is suppossed to be inexpensive and very versitile. Even having SWB and LWB variations. These features allow it to be utilized by multiple divisions within GM spawning a surprising combination of vehicles.

Now people are saying that it is a large car platform and too large and heavy to be versatile? Why is this starting to look very familiar?

So let me get this straight. GM has: Y-car, Sigma, Zeta, Kappa, and V. All are RWD platforms and we still have no platform suitable for a Camaro? This can't be true? No car company can be this shortsighted.

One other comment. lets say GM does build a Zeta based "Chevy GTO" that is NOT called Camaro. This would have to be the end of any chance for the Camaro's return. How would GM be able to justfiy making a modified special chassis just for Camaro. All of the other RWD cars slated for north america will be on sigma, zeta, or Kappa. The Camaro would be a low volume car trying to justify its own chassis / platform with no other cars to share it with.

Isn't that how we got in this mess in the first place?

 

Sigma=Large, Sporty, luxury
Zeta= Large volume RWD architecture
Semi-Kappa= Medium Volume RWD


It looks like the Torana and all its Semi-Kappa (or whatever the hell it is) platform mates will be built in the US. If the platform is as flexible as they say, there should be no problem building along side say a Pontiac sedan, or a Saab, or a Caddy Semi-Kappa.

 

Where are you getting your info from?? I was at that clinic and the Chevy Coupe came in between an '04 Mustang and an '04 Accord Coupe in overall length. The wheelbase of the CC was closer to the Accord's than the Mustang's. Reread the GONGOS post for specifics on the dimensions. That car was nowhere near as long as a 4th gen and it wasn't much taller either. I guess the true question is, was the clinic car on Zeta.

As far as the redesign goes, I heard it had more to do with the RETRO front end than anything else.

 

BINGO!!!


I wonder how what you saw translated to Zeta architecture?

Was it as big as a GTO? Did it have a high firewall?

BTW...someone chime in here... I think Danno was at the clinic before Zeta was selected.

 

At this clinic...were there cars that were there, or just pictures?

 

There were 2 production cars and the concept vehicle. The concept looked to be furher along than a mock up as there were seats inside. Here's what I said before

"Overall the concept was shorter than the Accord in lenght but slightly greater than the GT. The overhangs on the car looked to be shorter than both the GT and Accord. the height of the car was about the same as the GT. I remember getting close to it (to look inside) and thinking "its taller than my 4th gen". The car sat lower than the GT and it had a mean stance. I photochopped an SS concept to give you all an idea of what I saw."

03 Mustang and the 03 Accord Coupe...
Mustang: 183.2"
Accord: 187.6"

original link:GONGOS thread