The 2000 Cadillac Catera Sport showed that GM could actually develope a world class chassis - BMW beating handling and an implausiblly comfortable ride. Alot of traditional buyers asked if the Catera was crap like the last German-build Opels imported to Buick dealers in the 70s. I had to answer yes, because the build quality and reliability were shaky, and the powertrain was gutless. The CTS is shaping up to prove GM can build a good-all-around performance sedan.

The next generation Monaro/GTO, especially a domestically built one, can't help but be a better car. A full scale development budget will assure that. I can understand the reasoning behind the GTO as a stopgap, but the customer is illserved by the hasty planning.

The CTS is the first car from GM since the late 1970s that truly shows the way ahead for styling and design. The Monaro, like its Commodore progenitor, reflects an obsolecent design paradigm, with the soft lines of the "aero" movement. The GTO is dated from day one and shows the potential for being underdeveloped and overpriced. This "new" car is already outclassed by the Cobra version of the outgoing Mustang in performance, style and value. I would hardly call that a recommendation.

Coming close on the heels of the cancellation of the F-body, the arrival of the GTO represents sinsiter opportunism. It is symptomatic of the erosion of "product" at the core of General Motor's North American operations. A Holden solution was the easy answer to an obvious marketing gap, a gap which was created by a lack of planning and investment in the domestic market.

As a replacement for the Grand Prix coupe, a car of similar vintage, the GTO does nothing to advance the design image of Pontiac. As a static improvement, this "performance flagship" leaves me to question the seeming lack of direction at the Pontiac division and its viability as a whole.

 

and red how do you know that the aussies don't have their little paws on development of the future GM 'chassis ' and vehicles, they are by the way developing and well into a AWD chasis as we speak , um what else... the 'High Feature V6' is being produced at holdens engine plant which will power up and coming alfa romeo performance cars as well as domestic cars and who knows what-else.

Dude you talk about us like we are from the neanderthal period.

Aussies are world class at innovative and efficient at making things happen.

whether it be cars, medicine, science whatever... sports, for such a small population we achieve alot....

anyway i can see i cannot win this argument because your reasoning is based on pride, and why cant GM do this themselves instead of relying on an import, you say its an antiquated chasis and youre right its not the latest thing ,but it works well and does the job better than alot thats out there. as for the cadilac catera i have seen this vehicle and i dont think it looks the same or performs the same.

knock the aussies all you like, but get used to us because we are here to stay.... and its not only holden... i wouldnt be surprised if the '500 million dollar' aussie project - Falcon(barra) + engines and suspension bits etc.. dont end up under the new mustang or lincons, mercury in some way or form ...

 

I believe Holden is now in charge of developing GMs new world rwd architecture. The US and Australia will eventually share the same chassis and components. Doesnt the new Ford Falcon already have the engine and rear IRS of the next gen Mustang?

 

Right on all counts Impala64.

Alot of very interesting input here, but redzed, I do have to say, your views on Holden, and Australia in general are way, way off. You really need to take a trip there, check out the country, and maybe even take a look at Holden or HSV's facilities as I did. The fact that you won't even take a wait and see view on GTO, and voice an opinion about all things Australian (which I'll respect as an opinion) all seem based on some pretty obvious immobile misconceptions.

 

one point i would like to make and that alot of you say a costermer would chose one brands car over the other but what if there wasn't anthor chose,would they buy something else.

 

Should we bring this full circle...Look at a plant that is operating at 1/3 capacity producing a car based on a platform that cannot be used for any other model. On top of that waning sales due to lack of updates, investment, and overall prior planning maybe, but this can't be undone overnight (mistakes are in the past...deal with the present now).

Is this a model that is up for being removed...albeit temporarily?? I'd argue "You betcha". However, the fact that remains that the market is out there for the car, but it needs to fit in to a leaner design philosophy.

Of couse that car is the Camaro/Firebird, and that fact makes us really upset at the chain of events leading up to it, but it doesn't change the above situation. Am I angry? Yeah...but from what I've read and seen I think this is what happened. Was there another better course of present action?....maybe...I don't know one though. Sigh....

 

Here's a review:

If you expect a sportier handling and performance, you will be disappointed. The Monaro not only shares the same engines with Commodore, but the suspension setting is even softer than Commodore SS. It seems that Holden wants to make it a comfortable tourer like 406 Coupe or 3-series Coupe, but then again its semi-trailing arm suspensions prevent it from offering true supple and quiet ride quality. Strangely, steering ratio is tuned slower than the sedan to make it more progressive and less nervous. Push the car hard, it is really more composed. It will understeer safely at the limit, it will power slide under hard throttle, but something seemed missing: agility and sharpness. By coupe standard, it feels too big and heavy.

http://autozine.kyul.net/html/Holden.htm#Monaro

Interior "quality?"

The interior is disappointing for looks and build quality. Once again, the hard-plastic dashboard is carried over from Commodore, just adding fake aluminium decoration. In the positive side, it has plenty of space front and rear, because the car is actually very big.

 

That Autozine site interests me, since the author acknowledges that he not only doesn't drive the cars -- he simply reads lots of magazines. In fact he doesn't even own a car. He just re-writes (using bad english) what he's read.

So what's he done with Monaro? He's paraphrasing all of the criticisms of the car made by Australian automotive journalists --especially the transmissions, which are oddly enough imported from the States.

He criticises the Monaro as being just a two door Commodore, but neglects to mention that most of the journalists agreed that this wasn't a bad thing. He's right, of course, in that the Monaro's semi-trailing arm IRS is obsolescent, but the engineers have done a good job in overcoming this shortcoming. He doesn't mention this for some reason, maybe he didn't make it all the way throught the articles?

He's quite right about the interior build quality, however. I'm no fan of the interior he refers to, but the new one is much better.

 

LOL too funny...!! http://autozine.kyul.net/Author.htm

 

Yeah, I know. The funny thing is, this guy's "vicarious" reviews of alot of cars I've driven myself are pretty much spot on. Most American car mags are SO tied up in product launch hype, and afraid of offending big advertisers, that they print sugarcoated reviews of just about any car. The guy isn't selling anything, so we should at least be able to trust his motivations.

So what's he done with Monaro? He's paraphrasing all of the criticisms of the car made by Australian automotive journalists --especially the transmissions, which are oddly enough imported from the States.

I'll be the first to admit the 6-speed is a little clunky. You Aussies probably don't have a Hurst shifter option - which doesn't make the gearchange BMW brilliant, but sure makes the throws shorter and quicker.

As far as the 4-speed slushbox, this tranny is actually fairly clever considering its main use is in 1/2 ton trucks. At full throttle it slams off shifts quickly, which is just fine by me. Easing off means that it becomes Cadillac smooth - well, not Northstar Cadillac smooth. The transition between extreme styles of driving will confuse the electronics for a shift or two, but so be it. When an automatic is virtually equal to a manual in acceleration times, I won't get too picky.

 

yep we have short shifters... if thats what the hurst is ? here

we also have yank3800 converters, and know how to tweak the auto, see

anyway man , this subject is going no where, wont be long now and everyone will see the car up there and thus will form their own opinions.