GTO's are doing well in some areas of the country but aren't exactly flying off the shelf. Will this hurt the next Camaro's chances?

Also, is it more likely going to be a sigma-lite or zeta platform (if at all)?

 

I certainly dont see how slow GTO sales will help the case to bring back another 2 door 4 seat car thats a chevy. So I say yes it will hurt the chances. Just an opinion.

 

I dont think so at all. The price was too high for a long time. That drove a lot of guys to the cheaper mustang or the Cobra which offered better bang for the buck. Those guys just cant trade in those cars, they would lose too much on a brand new car. When those loans and leases come to an end, sales should pick up. The GTO is currently in the Cobra's market where there are not big sales numbers anyway. A new Camaro would be in the mustang market and hopefully have more mass market appeal. And maybe all the Camaro enthusiats have learned their lesson and will be lining up at the dealership to support it.

 

Slow sales most likely derived from the semi-bland/conservative styling (not a problem with camaro i hope), sticker north of 32k (even if fully loaded still lots of $$$$ to lots, not problem with most camaros hopefully), and lesser performance than the Ls1 f-bods which were a bit faster and for the most part cheaper, as well as the Cobra it is priced similar to. Most pony cars enthusiasts will probably opt for either camaro or mustang, leaving GTO somewhere in the middle. Tough fighting off popular sport coupes like the G35 and 3 series as well even though the GTO seems to be the much better value.

Either way, GM seems committed to the GTO cause and will not give up easily. Look like they'll be trying this again but with more power and tq from the new Ls2 as well as hood-scoops, etc... to liven up the styling.

Btw: Why don't they make DVD Navi optional on the GTO's?? It is a luxury sports coupe right?

 

pretty sure sigma-lite and zeta is the same thing.

 

1. Sigma-lite, Sigma-volume, and Zeta are all the same as Big Al mentioned.

2. GTO is a premium performance tourer. Camaro isn't. GTO is a complete package with no real options. Camaro is a low priced car that you can option as you want it, more or less. Comparing GTO to Camato is like comparing Camaro to Monte Carlo or Corvette (which are actually in the same showroom). Apples and oranges.

3. Mustang currently is selling better than all other coupes in the country... combined. The coupe market is very limited right now, and is one of the hardest to predict. This means Camaro must be able to pull sales from Mustang to succeed.

This guaranties that the next Camaro will be more modest in size than it was, will be somewhat more upright than it was, and will be closer to it's roots instead of wandering into being a 4 passenger Corvette in styling. It also means it will be priced lower than a GTO, and will have a wide range of options.

Look to Mustang to influence Camaro, not GTO (beyond prviding a chassis).

 

This is exactly what I've been saying on this forum for months now. Mustang has almost always influenced Camaro on multiple levels, not the other way around. Thus, the next Camaro will be more Mustang like. It MUST appeal to the masses. Whether or not many here want to see it, or whether or not you like it, this is a good thing. It is IMO, that the next Camaro will be more "retro" like. Not retro, but "retro". By this I mean it will have definite cues from past Camaros (1st gen) along with other year models...just like Mustang. GM isn't stupid. They know Ford's formula for Mustang and they know it works. I really believe they plan on selling 100,000 Camaros when it comes back out, but...there's only one way to do that and that is to copy the Ford formula for RWD coupe sales which = Mustang. Now you can flame me, disagree with me, yell at me or whatever, I don't care. But when it comes true, don't cry to me. If it doesn't come true, well, you can tell me I was wrong.

 

I for one hope you are right. I would love first gen
cues in a modern car. Hell, I love 05 mustang!

 

[QUOTE=guionM]

2. GTO is a premium performance tourer. Camaro isn't. GTO is a complete package with no real options. Camaro is a low priced car that you can option as you want it, more or less. Comparing GTO to Camato is like comparing Camaro to Monte Carlo or Corvette (which are actually in the same showroom). Apples and oranges.
[QUOTE]

Say what you want, the LS-1 engined SS and "Ram-Air" F-bodies were all priced in the same segment as the GTO. There doesn't seem to be any inclination at GM to adopt "value pricing" that undercuts any of the competition, let alone the upcoming 2005 Mustang.

Incidentally, isn't it amazing that GM had better luck selling $30K+ F-bodies than $33K Aussie coupes? Even the most grotesque Ram-Air T/A, "pig nostril" hood scoop and all, was a visual masterpiece compared to the dead and bloated "Goat-from-Downunder."

 

I've said all along one of my biggest fears with the 5th Gen is that it would become a "Chevrolet Mustang"...

I kind of knew in the back of my head that it would probably go that way and all... I just didn't want to believe it.

 

How does "more upright seating, appealing to the masses, etc...." equal a "chevrolet mustang"? . If i'm correct, the 1st gen had catered to the masses and had fairly upright driving position. Some say the car is becoming more "mustang like", but maybe it's going back to its roots and becoming more of a 1st gen car (a car for everyone).

 

I think what Darth means is that we want Camaro to have its own identity, and for 30+ years that has meant lower slung, sports/GT car feel. I want to feel like I'm still in a Camaro (with better visability and ergonomics of course) and I don't want to look at it and see a thousand places where I stop and say "yep...Mustang influenced this and that".....

 

When did the M*stang ever influence the Camaro? Yes the car was made to compete with the M*stang when being thought up in the 1st Gen, but was it not longer, wider, lower, and more performance focused when compared to the M*stang?? (don't know about weight) They certainly did not look similar and the Camaro was made to be a faster, better handling, braking, and riding car with alot more style and European flare. The 1st Gens took from the Corvette just like all Gens did in style and performance.

They were low for their time, a car that was 51"/51.5" from the street to the roof, that's low for the later 60's, take a look at them at shows/cruises and compare to other cars. In comparison, IROC-Z's, which are considered really low cars in part by GFX are 49"/50", not much of a difference in about 20 years. (2nds were actually the lowest Camaros by only a few tenths compared to 3rds) The Camaro really became it's own thing more and kept furthering itself from the 2nd Gen-on, which worked successfully for the car for years.

I don't think the GTO will have any effect on the Camaro's sales. A M*stang influenced Camaro is the wrong way to go. The car sold great with it's own formula until the 4th Gen, which sold alot less for alot of reasons. Keep the Camaro formula and do it right this time and it will sell like it used to in the 1st-3rd Gens.

Lets think about the cars' history and what truely made it work instead of looking at the M*stang and saying, well lets see if that works for us.

 

Really, how the 1st generation did things is largely irrelevant to the perception of what a Camaro is to the people who have bought new ones in the last 20 years.

 

Very true. I think some people forget all too often that the 1st Gen was a rush and things had to be done differently than they would have liked. The fact that they only made up 3 out of 35 years of production is neglected way too often also. I feel like both cars are actually focused at slightly different markets.