Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 610
From: Akron, OH.
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Who knows, the more and more I get into oil economics; the more I get confused and realize I don't understand it at all.
Can I get an AMEN???
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,911
From: Southern California (SoCal)
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Originally Posted by Flip94ta
“ but when is the last time you saw one close shop? Business is that bad huh? .
Those gas stations couldn't produce a good enough profit to justify them having a valuable corner lot anymore. Those corner locations usually get sold for a lot of money to build a more profitable Fast Food restraunt on. Also California has a ton of regulations and that makes it even more expensive to operate a gas station as well. After those gas station get shut down that property has to get dug up and have all the old polluted (MTBE) soil removed and the area tested and treated before any new construction can be built on the premises.
Fewer gas stations = Less Competition= HIGHER PRICES
People who look to taxes and regulations to solve the problem usually hold the philosophy below:
If it moves - TAX IT!
If it continues to move- REGULATE IT!
If it stops moving - SUBSIDIZE IT!
Last edited by johnsocal; Apr 12, 2006 at 02:30 PM.
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From: Southern California (SoCal)
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
This says it all.
It's for full service but it's a sign of things to come.
It's for full service but it's a sign of things to come.
The price of full service high octane gas reaches $4.049 dollars per gallon Thursday, April 20, 2006, at a gas station in Beverly Hills, Calif. Oil prices held steady near record highs Thursday after weekly data showed a drop in U.S. gasoline stocks, raising worries that refiners don't have an adequate inventory cushion ahead of the peak summer driving season. (AP Photo/Damian Dovarganes)
Local Stations Run Out Of Gasoline
POSTED: 6:48 am EDT April 20, 2006
UPDATED: 6:17 pm EDT April 20, 2006
Gas stations in three East Coast states ran out of fuel on Thursday as gas prices soared. Shortages were reported in Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania on Thursday afternoon. They could last as long as 30 days.
NBC 10 was live at one gas station when the pumps went dry at rush hour.
An NBC 10 news team was at a Wilmington, Del., gas station on Thursday afternoon, where reporter Bill Baldini informed drivers pulling up to the pumps that the station was on empty.
Closer to home for NBC10.com, a Luk Oil station just blocks from our station was out of gas as news trucks hit the street to report the Thursday afternoon news. Stations on the Admiral Wilson Boulevard in New Jersey and in several Pennsylvania areas are also out of fuel, or only selling premium fuel, AAA told NBC 10.
AAA spokeswoman Cathy Rossi told Baldini that the shortages were due to "logistics."
She said that a switch from MTBE to ethanol as a fuel additive is causing the shortages, and that more ethanol was in transit to refinieries.
Rossi said the shortages were expected to be temporary.
By temporary, AAA and other experts said the shortage situation could be for as long as 30 days.
The news was unwelcome to drivers who saw a big jump at the gas pumps overnight. On Thursday morning, NBC 10 reported that prices at some local gas stations had hit $3 per gallon.
An NBC 10 news van stopping in Conshohocken, Pa., saw gas selling for $3.09 for a gallon of regular unleaded at a local station.
Don't expect those prices to go down in the near future.
Overseas on Thursday, crude oil prices hit a new record intraday high of $72.49 after weekly data showed a drop in U.S. gasoline stocks.
This is raising worries that refiners don't have an adequate inventory cushion ahead of the peak summer driving season.
POSTED: 6:48 am EDT April 20, 2006
UPDATED: 6:17 pm EDT April 20, 2006
Gas stations in three East Coast states ran out of fuel on Thursday as gas prices soared. Shortages were reported in Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania on Thursday afternoon. They could last as long as 30 days.
NBC 10 was live at one gas station when the pumps went dry at rush hour.
An NBC 10 news team was at a Wilmington, Del., gas station on Thursday afternoon, where reporter Bill Baldini informed drivers pulling up to the pumps that the station was on empty.
Closer to home for NBC10.com, a Luk Oil station just blocks from our station was out of gas as news trucks hit the street to report the Thursday afternoon news. Stations on the Admiral Wilson Boulevard in New Jersey and in several Pennsylvania areas are also out of fuel, or only selling premium fuel, AAA told NBC 10.
AAA spokeswoman Cathy Rossi told Baldini that the shortages were due to "logistics."
She said that a switch from MTBE to ethanol as a fuel additive is causing the shortages, and that more ethanol was in transit to refinieries.
Rossi said the shortages were expected to be temporary.
By temporary, AAA and other experts said the shortage situation could be for as long as 30 days.
The news was unwelcome to drivers who saw a big jump at the gas pumps overnight. On Thursday morning, NBC 10 reported that prices at some local gas stations had hit $3 per gallon.
An NBC 10 news van stopping in Conshohocken, Pa., saw gas selling for $3.09 for a gallon of regular unleaded at a local station.
Don't expect those prices to go down in the near future.
Overseas on Thursday, crude oil prices hit a new record intraday high of $72.49 after weekly data showed a drop in U.S. gasoline stocks.
This is raising worries that refiners don't have an adequate inventory cushion ahead of the peak summer driving season.
Last edited by johnsocal; Apr 21, 2006 at 02:16 AM.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Yeah, when you see gas prices with 10c lower then their competitors typically they are losing money at the pump, and make it back when you come in a buy a $2.00 Pop, and $3.00 Bag of Chips... 
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
I was thinking that what I said applies to where I live since there are eleventy billion gas stations. Clearly if there was only one they would be pretty tempted to increase their margins. But I think a reduction by 50% around here wouldn't really change anything for consumers.
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From: Southern California (SoCal)
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Here’s an interesting why Ethanol is more complicated to mix than MTBE.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14391807.htm
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14391807.htm
The conversion to ethanol was prompted by the federal Energy Policy Act of 2005, which left refiners vulnerable to groundwater contamination suits and mandated greater use of renewable fuels. The use of ethanol forced gasoline retailers to clean their tanks, remove all water from them and install extremely fine filters on their pumps.
Ethanol is a solvent that picks up any gunk in tanks and readily blends with water. Those properties could ruin a 9,000-gallon tank of gasoline at a huge cost to a retailer.
It costs up to $1,500 to clean tanks, said Kevin S. Kan, president and chief executive officer of American Auto Wash Inc. in Malvern, which operates 18 stations in the region, including 13 BPs that have converted to the ethanol blend.
Ethanol is logistically more complicated than the petrochemical it replaced - MTBE, or methyl tertiary butyl ether. Refiners could blend MTBE into gasoline at the refinery and send the finished gasoline through pipelines to terminals.
But ethanol must be blended into gasoline at the terminal because it would mix with water if it were sent through pipelines, ruining the fuel. So, fuel terminals have to go through a similar process of cleaning tanks to store ethanol before it is blended.
They must also install blending equipment.
Independent gasoline distributors said few fuel terminals had gas yesterday. Those that did, such as the former Exxon terminal in South Philadelphia now owned by Pacific Energy Partners L.P., had trucks waiting four hours for fuel because the terminal was filling trucks in only two of the five lanes that they use normally. "We are doing our best to activate the others," said Jennifer Shigei, manager of investor relations for the Long Beach, Calif., company
Ethanol is a solvent that picks up any gunk in tanks and readily blends with water. Those properties could ruin a 9,000-gallon tank of gasoline at a huge cost to a retailer.
It costs up to $1,500 to clean tanks, said Kevin S. Kan, president and chief executive officer of American Auto Wash Inc. in Malvern, which operates 18 stations in the region, including 13 BPs that have converted to the ethanol blend.
Ethanol is logistically more complicated than the petrochemical it replaced - MTBE, or methyl tertiary butyl ether. Refiners could blend MTBE into gasoline at the refinery and send the finished gasoline through pipelines to terminals.
But ethanol must be blended into gasoline at the terminal because it would mix with water if it were sent through pipelines, ruining the fuel. So, fuel terminals have to go through a similar process of cleaning tanks to store ethanol before it is blended.
They must also install blending equipment.
Independent gasoline distributors said few fuel terminals had gas yesterday. Those that did, such as the former Exxon terminal in South Philadelphia now owned by Pacific Energy Partners L.P., had trucks waiting four hours for fuel because the terminal was filling trucks in only two of the five lanes that they use normally. "We are doing our best to activate the others," said Jennifer Shigei, manager of investor relations for the Long Beach, Calif., company
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 201
From: U.S.
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Originally Posted by Kris93/95Z28
How I wish ethanol & flex fuel vehicles would make it to market so much faster... If gas had to compete in the real world, then things should be a lot better 
One person was saying that Americans didn't WANT alternative fuel sources, and that's what pissed me off! Who are they to speak for the majority?
If I had MY way, the new Camaro would be able to run off 'something', E85 or whatever, and still be a kick-*** ride!
They were also saying 'if Americans had to pay what the Europeans pay' then things would be different, as if they were wishing it would happen. Imagine, these fat suits talking BS like this. Sorry, I'm kind of ticked off about this crap.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
From: Alexandria, Louisiana
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Bio diesel is looking more and more promising every day for me now. That and a bio diesel plant was opened up less than 40 miles from me. Which I was surprised by, BTW because everytime somone trys to build a an ethanol plant or bio diesel plant in Louisiana, Blanco steps in and shuts it down.
Probably the only reason this one got to open is because it has nothing to do with Sugar Cane, and the big sugar mills in South La didnt feel threatened, so this time they didnt shove money under the table to our Governor.
Wait? Whats that? More big business shenanigans?
Probably the only reason this one got to open is because it has nothing to do with Sugar Cane, and the big sugar mills in South La didnt feel threatened, so this time they didnt shove money under the table to our Governor.
Wait? Whats that? More big business shenanigans?
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
I can't tell youguys how sick and tired I am of this "supply-and-demand" BS that everyone keeps spouting...
Even OPEC (one of the groups I often accuse of loading the scales to one side) is saying there are no problems and the supply is there right now.
OPEC says oil supplies not the problem
""The healthy situation on the supply side is further demonstrated by OECD crude oil inventories, which are at comfortable levels both in absolute terms and in days of forward cover, while U.S. commercial crude oil stock levels have reached their highest levels in eight years," he added, referring to the 30-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development."
US reserves are at 8-year highs, yet I hear on the radio that supply is not keeping up with demand?
The next best argument behind supply/demand is this changeover from MTBE to ethanol, or is is the change from winter to summer blends, or is it the change from heating oil to gasoline, or is it... nevermind.
I hope the oil tycoons that are raping us get reincarnated as dinosaurs in their next life so I can come along and burn their @sses in my musclecar.
Even OPEC (one of the groups I often accuse of loading the scales to one side) is saying there are no problems and the supply is there right now.
OPEC says oil supplies not the problem
""The healthy situation on the supply side is further demonstrated by OECD crude oil inventories, which are at comfortable levels both in absolute terms and in days of forward cover, while U.S. commercial crude oil stock levels have reached their highest levels in eight years," he added, referring to the 30-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development."
US reserves are at 8-year highs, yet I hear on the radio that supply is not keeping up with demand?
The next best argument behind supply/demand is this changeover from MTBE to ethanol, or is is the change from winter to summer blends, or is it the change from heating oil to gasoline, or is it... nevermind.
I hope the oil tycoons that are raping us get reincarnated as dinosaurs in their next life so I can come along and burn their @sses in my musclecar.
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,911
From: Southern California (SoCal)
Re: Will gas hit $4.00 on the switch from MTBE to Ethanol?
Originally Posted by ProudPony
I can't tell youguys how sick and tired I am of this "supply-and-demand" BS that everyone keeps spouting...
Even OPEC (one of the groups I often accuse of loading the scales to one side) is saying there are no problems and the supply is there right now.
OPEC says oil supplies not the problem
Even OPEC (one of the groups I often accuse of loading the scales to one side) is saying there are no problems and the supply is there right now.
OPEC says oil supplies not the problem
In reality all OPEC is saying is that their infrastructure is running full capacity and currently there are no infrastructure problems. What they don't tell you is haven't significantly expanded production and enlarged their infrastructure knowing that it would only drive crude oil prices lower. Also it should be known that any additional/extra oil they might be able pump (with their current infrastructure) is not the desirable and easier to refine light-sweet-crude but the more expensive and more difficult to refine sour-crude that's like the stuff that comes from Venezuela.
US reserves are at 8-year highs, yet I hear on the radio that supply is not keeping up with demand?
I hope the oil tycoons that are raping us get reincarnated as dinosaurs in their next life so I can come along and burn their @sses in my musclecar.
So keep waving your red flag of 'Revolution' while you're building factories in China or yell "VIVA LA REVOLUCION" next time you're in Mexico
Last edited by johnsocal; Apr 23, 2006 at 01:38 AM.