Why would it cost a GM employee his/her job to talk about Camaro...
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 402
From: El Paso, Texas
That would be cool if the gag order was just to build up the excitment...That would be sweet if one month before the 2005 mustangs were to hit the dealerships, chevy just comes out with the NEW 2005 CAMARO!! to just take everyone by suprise! having front page coverage all over everything"...removed...remembered...revamped...re born..the new 2005 camaro is back! I can picture it now...
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by ProudPony
Go HERE and go to the 4th post down...
Read very carefully, looking for the words CAW, contract, Camaro, and Firebird. Look at the post date. I got ribbed for this kind of talk in other places... even called "crazy" to think GM would lose the rights to use their "own names". Crazy?
Yeah, crazy.
Like a fox.
Go HERE and go to the 4th post down...
Read very carefully, looking for the words CAW, contract, Camaro, and Firebird. Look at the post date. I got ribbed for this kind of talk in other places... even called "crazy" to think GM would lose the rights to use their "own names". Crazy?
Yeah, crazy.
Like a fox.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 649
From: Clinton TWP, MI
Now is a time for us to be patient and look foward to the possibility that, as Red Planet has told us "Performance is not dead at GM" and comments like "Keep the Faith" just might be all that he / they can share with us, again as he's said before "In time we will all understand what is happening and the reasons behind it".
It's just like dating a chick when she doesn't put out then she keeps promising you some but doesn't you start to look around and you find something better you go. And ford WILL be there, no I don't like the CONCEPT Mustang but I know that is not the exact car. They also have more stuff coming.
I actually feel Ford is a few years ahead of GM right now in where the ball is. But not saying a thing, it's going to hurt them and I think they know that but contract BS prevents that.
I guess it is time to wait and see what happens and waiting is not one of my good points.
tom
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by 2K1SunsetSS
...It's just like dating a chick when she doesn't put out then she keeps promising you some but doesn't you start to look around and you find something better you go.... tom
...It's just like dating a chick when she doesn't put out then she keeps promising you some but doesn't you start to look around and you find something better you go.... tom
But say in this instance, said chick has loose ends with a ex-boyfriend to tie up (perhaps shes waiting till he gets all his things out of her apartment or maybe he still lives there...though nothing is going on between them) who happens to have the potential of being a Charles Manson. Getting you involved would make things impossible. The man is definately moving out, and will soon be gone.
She could put out for you now (she has the goods, is willing, is already planning). However, things could get ugly & out of hand with the other guy if she did.
So she waits till he's completely out of the picture.
Last edited by guionM; Jan 16, 2003 at 05:06 PM.
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But say in this instance, said chick has loose ends with a ex-boyfriend to tie up (perhaps shes waiting till he gets all his things out of her apartment or maybe he still lives there...though nothing is going on between them) who happens to have the potential of being a Charles Manson. Getting you involved would make things impossible. The man is definately moving out, and will soon be gone.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,463
From: SoCal
guionM, So the GM, Camaro-Firebird dilema is a lot like an episode of General Hospital!
Just think about this for those who have read "All Corvette's are Red." A 5th gen Camaro story will be much longer with many more loops, or more precisely, more knots but I can see similar endings! I hope....
Just think about this for those who have read "All Corvette's are Red." A 5th gen Camaro story will be much longer with many more loops, or more precisely, more knots but I can see similar endings! I hope....
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by guionM
Fair enough, and I agree.
But say in this instance, said chick has loose ends with a ex-boyfriend to tie up (perhaps shes waiting till he gets all his things out of her apartment or maybe he still lives there...though nothing is going on between them) who happens to have the potential of being a Charles Manson. Getting you involved would make things impossible. The man is definately moving out, and will soon be gone.
She could put out for you now (she has the goods, is willing, is already planning). However, things could get ugly & out of hand with the other guy if she did.
So she waits till he's completely out of the picture.
Fair enough, and I agree.
But say in this instance, said chick has loose ends with a ex-boyfriend to tie up (perhaps shes waiting till he gets all his things out of her apartment or maybe he still lives there...though nothing is going on between them) who happens to have the potential of being a Charles Manson. Getting you involved would make things impossible. The man is definately moving out, and will soon be gone.
She could put out for you now (she has the goods, is willing, is already planning). However, things could get ugly & out of hand with the other guy if she did.
So she waits till he's completely out of the picture.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Out of curiosity... assuming there is all this stuff, woudln't it have had to have been voted on by CAW members or something?? 
You'd think someone could dig something up... if not from GM's side, then by contacting the CAW and/or the Canadian/St. Therese governments (if tax breaks were involved)
You'd think someone could dig something up... if not from GM's side, then by contacting the CAW and/or the Canadian/St. Therese governments (if tax breaks were involved)
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by 99SilverSS
guionM, So the GM, Camaro-Firebird dilema is a lot like an episode of General Hospital!
Just think about this for those who have read "All Corvette's are Red." A 5th gen Camaro story will be much longer with many more loops, or more precisely, more knots but I can see similar endings! I hope....
guionM, So the GM, Camaro-Firebird dilema is a lot like an episode of General Hospital!
Just think about this for those who have read "All Corvette's are Red." A 5th gen Camaro story will be much longer with many more loops, or more precisely, more knots but I can see similar endings! I hope....
Some time ago, RP refered us to read 'All Corvettes Are Red' to understand what was going on with Camaro. Seems the sequel may be even better!
Ste Therese, Bob Lutz, Zarella's departure, the 4th gen's multiple stays of execution, unions, Corvette, rise of Holden, SUVs, and a whole host of other subjects that seem to make the story in All Corvettes Are Red seem dull & routine by comparison.
Last edited by guionM; Jan 17, 2003 at 11:46 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,026
From: Japan
I went to the CAW website and did some searching and found this that talks a bit about the plant closure, (which is dated sometime back in 1998 BTW)
I also found some speeches that were from the CAW president and he says on this page that their contract with the Camaro expires 2002. (With this link you have to search for the word Camaro on the page to find it unless you want to read the whole speech.)
Here it is:
I also found some speeches that were from the CAW president and he says on this page that their contract with the Camaro expires 2002. (With this link you have to search for the word Camaro on the page to find it unless you want to read the whole speech.)
Here it is:
General Motors is closing a plant in Quebec which is the only plant that builds the Camaro and Firebird. It would not matter if it was a UAW plant or CAW plant or when the contract expired. If the company is not selling the cars the plant will close. You cannot convince me that because our agreement expires this year that is the reason General Motors is closing the Ste-Thérèse assembly plant.
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From: Japan
I also found this:
Seems like they want(ed) to blame it on the economy.
About 80,000 of our members work in the automotive industry or did, prior to this recession and September 11. We had massive layoffs at DaimlerChrysler and layoffs coming. Immediately following September 11, General Motors announced the closure of our Ste. Therese assembly plant. This plant has been around since 1967, and averaged about 3,000 jobs over all of those years, until the last three or four years when they were building the Camaro and Firebird. The sales of this sports car started to decline and our membership numbers started to decline. A lot of work was done in bargaining in 1999, and a lot of meetings have been held with top management of General Motors, including Jack Smith, Rick Wagoner, and Maureen Kempsten Darkes, and the bargaining committee of Local 1163, and Quebec Director Luc Desnoyers. We met in Detroit. We met in Toronto. We met in Quebec, but to no avail. At the end of the day, with General Motors continuing to lose market share, we couldn't identify a product to keep this plant open.
So what does that mean? A plant closure.
So what does that mean? A plant closure.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 108
From: Plano,Tx
Something doesn't add up, why put a gag order on a car that might or might not be built.
A contract with the St.Therese plant doesn't mean anything if it expired when they stopped making the f-bodies, but what does affect the Camaro is how the CAW affects the rest of the cars GM has built in Canada (which is a lot).
If GM said tomorrow they were going to build the Camaro they would get a political ****storm from the CAW, so corporate politics is what is affecting the Camaro's return and no other car in the GM lineup has to deal with this unique situation.
There's so much stacked against the Camaro I don't see how it could return, unless Lutz has a hard on for it. Which I doubt!
A contract with the St.Therese plant doesn't mean anything if it expired when they stopped making the f-bodies, but what does affect the Camaro is how the CAW affects the rest of the cars GM has built in Canada (which is a lot).
If GM said tomorrow they were going to build the Camaro they would get a political ****storm from the CAW, so corporate politics is what is affecting the Camaro's return and no other car in the GM lineup has to deal with this unique situation.
There's so much stacked against the Camaro I don't see how it could return, unless Lutz has a hard on for it. Which I doubt!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 108
From: Plano,Tx
I really think GM is blowing smoke up our a$$es about a Camaro's return to just get the people who have bought other GM cars and trucks with a Camaro or Firebird from buying elsewhere.
Why do they tell us the Camaro is coming back and then retract it? To give us false hope and keep buying GM!!!
**** THAT! I'm going to Ford!!! Let me know when GM stops screwing with it's enthuiasts!
Why do they tell us the Camaro is coming back and then retract it? To give us false hope and keep buying GM!!!
**** THAT! I'm going to Ford!!! Let me know when GM stops screwing with it's enthuiasts!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 649
From: Clinton TWP, MI
Originally posted by cobraeater
I really think GM is blowing smoke up our a$$es about a Camaro's return to just get the people who have bought other GM cars and trucks with a Camaro or Firebird from buying elsewhere.
Why do they tell us the Camaro is coming back and then retract it? To give us false hope and keep buying GM!!!
**** THAT! I'm going to Ford!!! Let me know when GM stops screwing with it's enthuiasts!
I really think GM is blowing smoke up our a$$es about a Camaro's return to just get the people who have bought other GM cars and trucks with a Camaro or Firebird from buying elsewhere.
Why do they tell us the Camaro is coming back and then retract it? To give us false hope and keep buying GM!!!
**** THAT! I'm going to Ford!!! Let me know when GM stops screwing with it's enthuiasts!