newby

I definately agree. I think that part of the stigma around Camaro in some "circles" is it's still percieved as a big, heavy dinosaur.

I think the things you mentioned would definately help the image with the new kids, and the Z28 would keep us die-hards happy.

And if the ecotec can make 240hp with a blower in the Solstice, and 750+ in the turbo drag applications, you could probably have some fun there too

dabear95

I agree with the idea of offering a 4 cylinder engine. However if this were to happen there would need to be 3 engine choices in order to appeal to a broader audience. My parents for example will never own a vehicle with a 4 cylinder. They assume the engine has no power and will not be able to last 80,000 miles. There is a fear planted in them that will not allow them to even drive a car with a 4 cylinder.

That being said, having a 4 cylinder option that appealed to those who liked the looks of the car, would allow the average fuel economy of the line to be improved. You don't need to have a blown 4, my Vibe has 180 HP with a 1.8L engine...

Jason

Z284ever

These are exactly the models I am referencing when I think of a blown Ecotec Camaro.

Z284ever

The '83 turbo Mustang GT was anything but a one off. It was a regular production option, and Ford was using the 2.3 Turbo in alot of cars. Mustang GT and SVO, T-Bird, Merkur XR4Ti...maybe some others.

From the mid eighties to the early nineties...Chrysler built well over ONE MILLION 2.2 and 2.5 turbo engines. They powered everything from minivans to sedans to Shelby Dodges. They were a cheap and effective way to get some horsepower. Some of these turbo minivans, sedans and Shelby Dodges....are today running 12.....11....and even 10 sec. 1/4 miles at the hands of enthusiasts!


With all that said...let me assure you that I am looking forward to buying a V8 equipped, 5th gen Z/28...I just don't see a reason not to have Camaro have another interesting powertrain.

Ken S

again, I don't think there should be a "base" Camaro.. If GM can dseign and build a performance platform to be shared by Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and maybe even Saturn...

So under one base platform, build multiple relatively low production number brand of cars. Give the Camaro and Firebird a pushrod V8, Buick a DOHC, and Saturn perhaps a HV or HF V6 with DoD.

Give them different final drive ratios in the back, differnet suspension settings, and differnet interior and exterior skins. More or less options. Doing this should make the cars look and even feel different.

So then you argue, "but the Camaro shouldn't have to share platforms with a boring Buick or a eco Saturn" My retort back is to design the performance platform right in the first place so ALL of them will be "world class".

cmc

The direction of the sport coupe/pocket rocket market (yes, that's what the Camaro would compete with) is toward more power. Do not look to the past and expect a base engine of less than 220 horsepower. The 260 HP 3.6L HFV6 is the ideal base engine for this car, plain and simple.

guionM

Don't you think that's surrendering Camaro & it's history to a has been? Sure, you'll have another nice limited production niche car, but Mustang still wins because Camaro gave up and walked away from the mission it was born for.

Besides, do you honestly think Team Corvette will tolerate another "special" sports car at Chevrolet? (One certain part time visitor to this site could share some stories with you that'll amaze you and give you a whole new outlook on Corvette! )

WERM

I thought all camaro's were supposed to be pretty sporty... shouldn't the base or optional V6 at least be as fast as a decent SEDAN? Those V6 altimas and accords are getting pretty quick these days...

I say make them ALL good cars. Give people a REASON to buy a V6 car. Don't make it "Filler". Besides, a nice lower displacement S/C or turbo car could be export material. (Remember, many countries tax cars on displacement).

Chuck!

The iron duke was an OK performer/economy car back in its day compared to what everything else out there was, and now its the thirdgen EVERYONE wants to forget about.

Just say no to a 4 cylinder in a Camaro.

Z284ever

No arguments here. That or it's high torque 3.8L brother. The only thing is....I'd bet an HFV6 costs more to manufacture than an LS1 (or LS6 for that matter).

Fbodfather

OK...haven't 'stirred the pot in what, 2 weeks??

(getting out large wooden spoon and placing chef's hat on head, along with the salt and pepper............)

In a perfect world, all Camaros would have fire-breathing V8s....the emblems would be holographic (so that some saw Z28 and others would see SS) insurance would be cheap, and I'd be living with Sandy Bullock.................

(poor Sandy!!!)

The Camaro has to have a base engine that is not a V8...why? Volume. Look at Mustang Registrations.....way more V6s than V8s.....and part (and only part) of the reason is insurance. Don't believe me? Go onto www.insuremarket.com and check out the rates using your personal profile. (make sure you save the profile so you can compare.........)

The problem is that the VIN reflects the engine in the car. (don't yell at GM...it is a federal mandate -- 17 characters and engine is mandatory........)

Now....who's to say that you couldn't put a V6 (or for the sake of stirring some more -- we'll call that 'blend at very high speed') or a 4 cyl in the car....and offer a Turbo or Supercharger available thru your local dealer that could be put on your Camaro as a weekend project...now...couple that with a performance exhaust system (again added by you, because you don;t have to pass 'noise driveby standards' like a manufacturer does) with full warranty on turbo/superchgr and exhaust..............for a substantial increase in HP?????

Ever notice that the Civic with all kinds of nitrous and hp has the same low insurance rate as the 4 cyl. that was not tampered with?????

Now that I have some of you completely rabid...........

Additionally, (and I know some of you will go into convulsions over THIS one: ) when asked why they did not consider a Camaro, a goodly number of Mustang buyers -- primarily female -- tell the research company that 'the Camaro has too much power and that much power is not necessary..........) (yeah, can you believe it? In my book, you can never have too much...but that's out of the mouths of some of the people who made Mustang sales greater than Camaro.)

Now...with all that said:

The VERY DNA OF A CAMARO SAYS IT HAS TO OFFER A MUSCULAR V8 AND REAR WHEEL DRIVE.................THE VERY DNA!

I don't care how much HP a blown V6 can put out...you cannot duplicate the sound and the emotion that A V8 stirs in the soul. And I know of no other way to get the broad, flat torque curve of a pushrod engine -- economically.

Fact: Camaro has to offer BEST IN CLASS performance out of a V8. (as it did in the last years of its life....) And if that isn't possible, I'm here to tell you that I'd rather not bring it back. (for those of you who may be convinced that it would come back as a fwd 4cyl


But to sell in numbers, you have to have an entry car with reasonable performance in the form of a smaller engine.

Sorry....that's just life. And I don't mean to belittle anyone.....but facts are facts.

So why is insurance so high on the V8? Well, I suspect that no matter how safe we build 'em, when someone has an accident at a very high rate of speed, it is bound to be SPECTACULAR..........and insurance rates are based on historical loss rates. (and that's why I become rabid when I hear people tell me that they shut off their traction control every time they get in the car and start it up.) I don't care how good of a driver you think you are.........any race driver will tell you it is there to protect you. (Yup..OK to shut it off at the drag strip and on a road course.....but any other time? Sorry...you aren't that good...and we prove it every day at Bragg-Smith, Justin Bell, and Bondurant.)

OK.....the chef is done stirring and seasoning the pot....time to let it simmer.................................


(WHOA!!!!! It's late and I posted as Fbodfather instead of Red Planet -- oh hell, most of you already know that anyway...........)

formula79

Hrrmmm now I don't look so far fetched with my ideas...hahah

Ken S

If they can sell it for a low price still like $25k, and only make say 40,000 Camaro's a year what would there really be a problem? Sure there won't be an extra new150k of them prowling the streets every year, but, do they really need to sell that many of them if there are 3 other varients of the base platform?

I hvae to admit my vision is a little fancyful.. one base platform, 4 different varients, selling at 40,000 units each. price ranging from $20(saturn HV V6 ver) to $35k+ (loaded up pontiac or buick ver). With GM making a profit. While meanwhile the Vette, which will still go for the same price range ($40ishk), would have the raw performance of a Viper while still being civil, still keeping the performance gap.

Okay, if that does happen, then don't call it a camaro and firebird.

Darth Xed

Even if I were worried about insurance rates... if I wanted a fast car, I'd still go for the V8 model...

By the time you buy all the parts, and labor (assuming not everyone can do the install them selves of the supercharger or whatever) you're probably at or above the V8 model's cost...

The difference would be fairly minor, I'd think... I know your basic point is saving on insurance, but how many people will actually go and do this anyway? I'd think it's be a small small fraction of I4/V6 sales.

I strongly feel that a 4 cylinder will be bad for Camaro's image. If it's a V6, hey - go for it... offer all the stuff you want through the dealer, but a 4 banger just doesn't belong there.

EDIT: I will not argue the fact that there should be a base model... I just don't feel that a 4 cylinder is proper for Camaro's image.

poSSum

With all the time you seem to spend at home now you just might be .... and not even know it

With how little recent GM product and procedures have excited me, I still trust with guys like Scott on the team IF we get another Camaro it'll be a good one