Pentatonic

Well, the Camaro and Firebird have been laid to rust in peace in the muscle car cemetary. As a hardcore Camaro guy for many years, it seems a bit odd to be on the Ford side of the Mustang argument. However, times have changed. So in contrast to the anti-Mustang opinions, I will post my pro-Mustang opinions.

First of all, the Ford vs. Chevy war is dead. The Camaro doesn't exist anymore and the Mustang is the king of it's own hill. The Ford vs Chevy war is really just an outdated idea from the 60's, back when performance cars came in only 4 forms: Chevy, Mopar, Ford, and AMC. Now, with increasing competition from Honda, Toyota and other imports, the in-fighting between American muscle cars serves no useful purpose anymore.

Still, it seems as though many people would like to see the Mustang fail. Many are quick to point out that Ford had to hault production on the Cobra recently because of quality issues. Comments like "I knew Ford couldn't get it right" were commonplace on this board.

Consider this scenario: What if Ford did kill the Mustang? That would mean there would be no entry level American V8 RWD performance car. AKA, the era of the ponycar would cease to exist. What good would it do us if the Mustang failed? It would send a message to GM that producing a 5th gen would be a bad idea. New car buyers would have to shell out 35+ grand for a GTO, or 45+ grand for a Corvette. A lot of people would have a hard time affording those kind of prices. Either that, or we could start making friends with the ricers we have been competing with for so many years. Would that be a good thing?

Now, onto styling issues. I've had a bit of a problem with Mustang stylings since the 80's. The 80's fox body cars looked liked hyped-up 2-door Escorts. Performance of a V8 encased in Escort sheetmetal, not my idea of a nice performance car.

Then came the 94 Mustang. Those cars were a bit nicer, but still rather dull and mundane. Next, came the current Mustang models and I thought to myself "Those cars are actually kind of nice."

However, I've always liked the muscle-car era Mustangs of the late 60's and early 70's. Since I didn't exist in the 60's or even the 70's, I first took a liking to muscle car styling flipping through my sports car picture books I enjoyed reading as a child.

Now that I have grown up (or not), I still like the 60's styled Mustangs. When I seen the 05 concept in person at the NAIAS, I instantly liked it. Now, many have said the design is too retro and they don't like it. My question is 'Why?".

The Mustang isn't an exact reissue of the 60's Mustang. You can't argue that it is. Hold a picture of the 05 concept next to a 60's Mustang, and you will see they are not the same.

Some similarities are undeniable, though. The 05 obviously includes elements from the past. Why is that bad? The past design elements it includes are good design elements. They made the original Mustang attractive and exciting, and they do the same for the 05 concept.

I suppose a few people were looking for some type of reinvention of the wheel (as cliched as that expression is). Maybe some were looking for a radically new Mustang design that has little or no similarities to past Mustangs. I liked the analogy that Derek Smalls used to the Porsche 911. The basic design of that car has changed very little since the 70's.

Obviously the 911 has been tweaked to make the design more modern, but the basic styling elements are still there. They are what make a Porsche recognizable. The styling of the 05 Mustang makes the car instantly recognizable as a Mustang. The design has been updated from the 60's and 70's, but the basic Mustang shape is still there. The car looks good, even if it does hint at past designs.

Now, onto performance. The Mustang has been inhaling Camaro exhaust since the LT1 came out. The updated LS1 served to kick the Mustang while it was down. How things soon change. The Camaro and Firebird vanished from their throne of performance in 2002, and the 03 Cobra eargerly took their place with a supercharged engine putting out 390 hp. All this for under $35,000.

Also, look at all of the special model Mustangs coming out. Some of these models like the Mach 1 Mustang were a result of Ford listening to their customer base. Employees working on Mustang projects posted on message boards asking people for input on what they thought would be a worthwhile car to produce. To keep matters in the Mustang world exciting, buyers can now choose between the GT, Mach 1, Cobra, and others. So while Ford is working with their customers, GM has left us in the dark.

So now, the Mustang is the ONLY car that is waving the flag of traditional entry level American performance. As the cars from overseas become faster and faster, the Mustang will be fighting the battle alone. Until (and if) a 5th gen Camaro comes out, the Mustang is the only car keeping the ponycar era alive.

centric

Bravo.

Sorry, the retro arguments don't wash with this car. It is a direct evolution of the original Mustang. As said above, the new Mustang is the 911 to the Camaro's Corvette.

There's nothing inherently wrong with EITHER approach.

Bottom line, I hope that GM is taking a long, hard look at all the coverage the Mustang is getting. And I hope they come out with something even better.

Until then, we have a deposit on a 2005 Mustang.

SNEAKY NEIL

Well, like I said in another post, the 911 analogy does not hold water. I guess i will write it again. The 911 has been constantly evolving from day 1 and has never strayed from that. With each redesign, it picks up new design cues. Maybe one day you could take the new car and compare it to the old one and there will be few simalarities even though there are stron simalarities to the previous generation. This is not the same with the 05' Mustang. Since the 60's the car has not gone down the evolution path that much, and each restyle brings a car that looks very different from the previous generation. Now, instead of evolving like the 911, they jump back in the lineage and make a car with very strong simalarities to the 60's car while abandoning the current style. This is why the 05' stang is retro.

I think a lot of people that compare the new car to the old one and say that they look so different are being thrown off by the super glossy paint and the more modern look. But, if you break it down to the lines and curves, they are so similar.

Again, not that its a bad design, because it isn't...........but we have already seen it before.

Z284ever

BRAVO! As Mustang originally defined the segment in '64...they now have the opportunity to re-define it on their own terms.

IZ28

It doesn't matter to me. If GM made an near exact rendition of ANY Gen as F**d has done, I would be pissed. Its unoriginal and takes away from the classicness OF the originals. A blend of cues and new or nothing, we don't need 1st Gen Part 2 in 06/07.

WERM

I don't see why most here wouldn't like it. Other than the styling (I think it looks fab) and likely a small horsepower defecit, it seems to be very similar in concept to the mythical Camaro we've been pleeding GM to build for years.

Perhaps it is anger or jealosy that Ford is giving Mustang fans what they want, while GM leaves Camaro fans out in the cold.

IZ28

There is really little new on this car, its a 60's M*****g!! It took almost exact designs from them and is uninspiring.

Derek Smalls

let me clear my statement up a bit,from '65 on,the 911 has changed very little,i believe mays thought this is the path the mustang SHOULD have gone down and now he's got his car to do that from now on,of course,i don't believe porsche wanted the 911 to last this long,at least that was the idea in the '70s and '80s when they tried to replace it with the 928 or thought they could replace it,but now that they've embraced it as what porsche is and should always be,you're not ever going to see another 911 that doesn't look like a 911,it wasn't planned but now it's set in stone.
but with a high volume car like the mustang,whether mays liked it or not,if this new car didn't sell(yeah right),they'd scrap this evolution plan and bring out a completely new one.i for one love it,everyone i know loves it(i think i'm a new mustang salesman at my work),ford will have a huge hit on its hands,so all GM has to do is open its eyes and see all that money going into fords' pocket and they'll get to work on a f-body pronto!the new mustang is the best thing an f-body fan could hope for,c'mon GM,i want my 6.0 trans am!!with a screaming chicken!!!ok,maybe not a screaming chicken,but i want a formula with a snorknel ram air hood!!!AND IT BETTER NOT COME FROM DOWN UNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SNEAKY NEIL

But I for one do NOT want a retro Camaro(or one from Down Under). I am worried that if the Mustang is a big hit, then Chevy might try to do the same with the Camaro......................although I think they won't because it would seem very foolish and odd to have 2 cars that look like they did 35+ years ago going against each other. Plus, why try to duplicate Ford when they should be going in thier own direction.
By the way, I don't think that a car like the 05' Mustang is what Camaro enthusists have been asking for at all.
It's too bad we realy can't fast-foward to the time when the 05' style will have to be redesigned for the next generation..............I think that would be very interesting to see what direction Ford would go from there.

Chuck!

WERM, that's definitely not it.

Cobraeater

I'm planning on buying a 05 Mustang. Everytime I see that grey one I think of Eleneaor from Gone in 60 Seconds and that does it for me.

GM doesn't care about F-Body enthuiasts, so why should I care about GM.

I would be interested to see if GM does come out with a Camaro in 06/07 but I won't be waiting around for it.

I'll keep the SS either way, probably get a 02 SS.

The Vette should be even more expensive for the C6, and the GTO's styling is lame so I'll pass on both of those.

Cobraeater

The 05 Mustang looks a whole lot newer and modern than the 3rd gen F-Bodies.

The 60's Mustang cues are what makes it good.

ckt101

I don't know all the reasons why I like the 05 mustang, just like I don't know exactly why I love camaros. I know I like the mustangs styling, I like that it is an affordable RWD V8 car. That's about it.

formula79

Hey I dont blame Mustang fans for liking it...I would be excited too...however...just realize to the rest of the world who isn't as into cars it looks like a 60's Mustang. It may be cool at first...but just like every retro design it will get old..

I have a question...what if a new Camaro had optional front clips..a retro front and a sleek high speed one?

BigDarknFast

I like the new Mustang *CONCEPT* quite a bit. It accentuates well the styling cues which made late-60's Mustangs a great success... like the forward-canted hood/grille and the sharp angular styling with a sleek fastback. IF the production version is very much like that I think it will be great. There are a few small things troubling me though...

1. Wonder what the pricing's going to be? Without Camaro to challenge it, Ford could boost prices significantly and the car wouldn't be such a bargain then would it...

2. I wonder if the sharp, aggressive style (which I find very appealing BTW) is going to turn off women buyers. And will a low roofline take away the command seating position which currently broadens the car's appeal? Not to mention what it might do to rear seat headroom. Rear headroom is poor even today in the current Mustang, so maybe that's not a big issue...

3. I hope Ford seriously attacks their quality problems soon, or that will impact this car's success.

Overall I'm happy with the direction Ford is apparently taking, I just hope the new car doesn't fall victim to some of the issues which hurt FBody sales. If it does it might hurt the 5gen's business case somewhat, although I believe GM has already made a decision to make the 5gen happen, based on current Mustang sales (remember Kurt Ritter's recent comments in an interview).