I have a Park Ave, 3800 Supercharged, 26+ mpg, dragging a 4100+ lb car, and crosses the 1320 in mid 15's...and it's only a Series 1 version.
Not bad for an "Old V6"...
One note: displacement didn't change on the venerable 3800, but it sported massive evolutions over the years.

 

Another thing I see is when the big 3 make new "hotrod"types,Chrylers makes hemis,chargers,rumble bees,ETC,ford come out with the T-birds and the Mustangs,Whats GM do put out a space bubble looking ugly *** truck that is to heavy,too expensive and did I mention ugly,
So mean while Ford is racking in money left and right from the stang,Gm sells a few SSRs to rich people to drive to the country club and get laughed at.
Thats why I hate to even hear GM might bring back the Camaro for a while because its going to be an overpriced moon buggy with a corvette engine(why not a 427 small block so at least they sould put on some cool looking emblems) that will be a flop and they will sit back and say "we told you so" now lets build another SUV for the soccer moms!!!
Somedays I have thoughts of buying a new Mustang,add some power goodies and relive the 60/70s again.

 

I think the Cobalt SS was a smashing success. A friend of mine is a die hard euro fan, and has a very nicely done Corrado VR6. I took him along to test drive a Cobalt SS supercharged, and he commented that he would actually buy one if he was looking for a car. I firmly believe that if GM did this with all of their vehicles, they would easily dominate the market.

It really does crack me up that people defend GM's lineup by saying how great the Vette, V and SS series Caddy's (Or any Cadillac) are. Yes, they are very nicely done vehicles. However GM has to start making money on volume, and the way you do that is by having well contented entry level product. If the base model is an acceptable downgrade from the halo version, people will buy it. Plain and simple.

I think if GM started building base model vehicles with exemplary fit and finish and options lists, their sales would grow exponentially. I think right now the only vehicle they have that fits that bill is the Cobalt. I'll say it again, I'm very impressed with what they did with the Cobalt, but they should put that much effort into their other vehicles that will sell to people in the entry to mid-level market. When I saw pictures of the G6 interior online, I couldn't wait to drive one. I rented a GT in Los Angeles, and I was severely disappointed in it. F&F was horrible inside (To quote the movie "The Scarecrow": All these things are the worst I ever seen), it lacked power (Even for an entry level motor option), and the auto tranny didn't know what to do with itself. I mean how does VW put together an amazingly tight interior into their base model vehicles and GM, with all of it's resources, can't match that?

I'm about to go on a rant here, but you can really see that GM has too many costs above and beyond the cost of just producing a vehicle.

 

 

Been taking a break for a while. But then I read something like this, and I just gotta say something:

Now, everyone know me as someone who's not afraid to slam GM if they are wrong about something, but I at least try to back up my opinions with something resembling facts, and avoid flaming just because I can form words on a keyboard.

Tim, I'm assuming you crawled in here from the lounge, along with a couple of other people on this thread, so I'll be gentle.

First off, I like the Mustang & Chrysler's LXs. I am probally even one of the 2 or 3 people here that even like the Thunderbird. But you are way off base in almost every way imaginable.

Ford has a MAJOR problem right now. Outside of the Mustang and the F-series, they are hemoraging money. Thunderbird (which I suspect you don't know was killed off back in June) was an image car that made little money. Expedition sales drops have deprived FoMoCo of their cash cow. Lincoln is a disaster. Mercury isn't faring much better. 500 has been less than a roaring success, and the Fusion, though off to an impressive start, won't turn a profit for quite a while. Ford isn't making money. They just aren't as bad off as GM.

As for Chrysler, though the 300 and Charger are getting all the press, the Durango is setting sales records. So is Jeep across the board. The dull Sebring is still inching out Mustang as America's best selling convertible. The soon to be replaced Stratus and Sebring sedans are also up in sales. Dodge Trucks are defying gravity by still selling well despite fuel costs.

Now about GM, you obviously haven't been paying attention for the past number of months, so let me educate you.

The Chevrolet HHR is a smash hit (the guy who said it's just a PT Cruiser in disguise can go s*rew himself). Cobalt is a smash hit. The Impala, which I think looks a bit too low keyed, is selling as a bit better than the old version. Corvette is doing well. So is Malibu. Cadillac is still on a winning streak. Solstice is essentially sold out for the rest of the year.

Not to say GM doesn't have problems. They are just coming out of what I feel is the short sightedness of the old "regime", and I don't feel they recognized how risky (or dumb) it was to bank on vehicles depended on low fuel prices despite past events at the expense of cars. Unfortunately, it takes years for new cars, let alone changes, to work it's way through a bureaucracy like GM.

GM has alot of stuff in the pipeline. They are cutting like crazy in order to pay for these startups.

Everyone at GM is painfully aware that their backs are against the wall, and they gotta play or else.

As for your statement about not bringing Camaro back, then like what I told the guy regarding the HHR..........

 

Haven't been in a G6 yet, but have you seen VW's owner satisfaction scores lately?

 

I'll tell you why GM's going down the tubes...because this is the type of customer they have to get back:

Random person 1:

"Once I had a 1986 malibu and it was the biggest piece of crap ever. It was total garbage. I'm never buying another GM car again."

Random person 2:

"Yeah, but that was nearly 20 years ago. Two decades ago! A lot has changed since then. GM cars are very reliable. In fact, nobody makes a terrible car anymore."

Random person 1:

"Well, I've had 5 Hondas over the last 19 years and none of them had any problems. Consumer retorts still says Hondas are better. Why should I switch?"

Random person 2: "........"

 

You've summarized Ford and GM's problem better than anyone I have read at any of the message boards. Although I am a fan of Ford and GM, I feel very negative about their future, no matter what products come out over the next few years.

 

-:Crawls back in from lounge:-


Being a normal person with a normal income let me tell you how I view cars...the Cobalt although selling well looks like an el cheapo piece of **** except the SS...the HHR looks like a PT Cruiser once your off your period and the mood swings stop take a look...my mom confuses them...so when the average car buyer can't tell the difference you didn't break any mold...






hey bonus the new impala sells a bit better than the old one...well hell yeah a bland sedan...ooooh but they make an SS model thats uber bitchin ...the Malibu is foul looking although cheap and practical and the maxx is ghey but hey they sell good...the Corvette does sell well...but it won't support GM...but only the rich can buy em...and GM makes cars for the common man...Cadillac HAHAHA yeah let me get my check book...oh the Soltice is sold out and what are production numbers for that...so what we have is what everyone has already said...anything appealing and worth a **** at GM isn't practical or affordable or looks good...when most people buy a CAR GM isn't where they are going to look...I can pick up a Corrolla for very resonable and get a Toyota reputation (whether it deserves it or not) and not lose my *** on resale...I workout with the sales manager for a local Toyota dealer and he has only 45 cars, trucks, and vans on the lot...he moves 250 cars a month...the local Chevy dealers have 250 cars sitting on the lot...to make it simple if your cars are not appealing people will not buy them...Toyotas are...

 

the HHR, although very ugly, looks a million times better than the PT Cruiser. the PT just looks so cheap in comparison, and that's really saying something

 

Well if GM is selling so well I would hate to see how many factories close and people lose their jobs if they were doing bad?
And the HHR is nothing more than driving afterbirth from a PT Cruiser when it was born!
How about those Cadilics that are on the Vettes frame,I think ;ll go buy 2,Oh wait I work for a living can't afford 1 because the counrty club dues are coming up!
GM doesn't want to sell to just anyone they have certain vehicals they want certain people to drive.
And when they shut down Oldsmobile They might as well closed their own doors=losers!!!!

 

Could you do me a favor and retype your posts, but in English this time? GuywithaZ, could you do the same? Thanks...

Obviously, GM is not selling as well OVERALL as they would like. However, people are pointing out the Cobalt and HHR and Cadillacs, etc. because you made the blanket statement that "their car models suck". Well, those models don't "suck" and are selling well, but you apparently think they are weak. The very models that you are deriding are some of the bigger success stories at GM.

Yes, the SSR has been a sales disappointment (priced too high for a limited use toy, and should have had the LS2 from the beginning). Much like the Plymouth Prowler before it, you know, from Chrysler. But much of the newer stuff is meeting with success in both sales and media reviews (like Cadillac, the HHR, the Cobalt, the Solstice, the Vette).

Right, GM doesn't want to sell to just anyone. They want to deprive the middle class and only sell Cadillacs to the rich. That would be great for market share...

 

If you can't read what we wrote then whats your gripe with it?

 

Maybe I don't see an accurate view of "the big picture" because I live in a GM town (well, on the border of Oshawa) but out on the highway everyday from home to work, or just out and about on the roads, you know what I see??

... a whole lot of mini-vans, sedans, SUVs and pick-up trucks.

Mini-vans: probably more Dodge Caravans than anything, but a whole $h!tload of Montana/Ventures, and even a bunch of the Buick/Olds mini-vans. Sure, there are Honda and Toyota vans around, but not as many as the domestics.

Sedans: Sunfires and Cavaliers baby!! Do you know how many times I'll see "packs" of Sunfires driving down the road?! Holy Sunfires Batman! Let's see, what else? Oh right, Grand Ams and Grand Prix left, right and center. Then a bunch of Malibus, Aleros, and the newer cars (Cobalts, Persuits, G6's). Oh, and don't forget enough cop look-a-likes ... yes I mean Impalas ... they're everywhere!! I even had a chance to drive one and I liked it.

SUV's/Pick-ups: hmm, again, maybe I see an inaccurate proportion because the Oshawa truck plant is ~10 miles from my house, but GM trucks are everywhere! There's even one in our driveway ('00 Sierra Z71). But the thing is, about ~75% of the trucks that Oshawa builds get shipped directly across the border to the U.S., so of the ~25% remaining that have to get dispersed in Canada, there must be a whole lot of trucks built 'cause there are still tons of them on the roads in my area!!

What's my point? Well, if GM's really are so BAD, and if "EVERYBODY" knows it, then why does it seem that the MAJORITY of people still drive them???? LOTS of them. Obviously there are lots of imports on the roads, but I never feel like I'm among "packs" of them like I am with GM's.

Like I mentioned, my Dad has a 2000 Sierra. The stupid issues with it are the really cheap door handles and tailgate latch that break really easily. Otherwise, it's a great truck. I wouldn't ever consider buying a different (brand) truck.

I used to own a '96 Sunfire before my Camaro. I bought it with ~75k on it, drove it for ~18 months, drove the living $h!t out of it, and all that went wrong was the typical head gasket failure around ~80k. What else is new, but it cost a couple hundred bucks and I was back in business.

I know that GM does need to work on their "image". Public perception IS bad (I've argued with friends and co-workers several times) but their cars aren't actually as bad as most people seem to believe. Although I'll agree that their service departments REALLY ARE that bad. Maybe they should work on the customer service, and the cars can hopefully sell themselves.

 

I didn't say anything about the reliability of a VW (Although yesterday I was hit by a lady in a 2001 Grand Am while driving my 84 Scirocco winter beater, and I fared way better than she did), I was saying that VW can pull off a much better interior on their new vehicles while targeting the same price points as GM (Give or a take a bit, since you do pay a bit of a 'premium' for a VW). I was saying that I don't understand how GM, a much larger and richer company than VAG can't do the same.


VW was also just an example. The interior on the new Civic is also put together so well, even if you can't get past how it looks (Which is opinion anyways). The 3 Cobalts I test drove all had decent, but not spectacular interiors. Seating was well done, however the door panels flexed when you pulled the doors shut, the plastic-faux aluminum trim piece on the passenger side dash looked like it had been radiused by hand by a rookie, and materials felt cheap.

I think buying a new car, or any car for that matter, is like taking a bet. Basically you're betting the cost of the vehicle that it will give you a few years of fairly trouble free service, at which point you can re-sell it for a decent amount. When shopping for a new car, you have very little time in the grand scheme of things to decide whether the car you're buying is worth the bet.

Most people would reason that if the interior looks this hacked together, what major parts of the car were also hacked together? Most people won't bet 20+ thousand dollars on whether or not their car will hold up after warranty is up.

I took a bet on an F-Body twice, and I lost big time. I was expecting to have a fun summer driver for a few years, and when life allowed it, would serve as a great platform to start modding. It turned into a sour experience, which call it ignorant or not, makes me hesitant to buy another GM product. Even when the 5th gen comes out, I would wait a couple years to see if it will hold up better than previous examples, even being a big fan of the cars.

Understand now?