eagleknight97

Yeah, I agree with some earlier statements. A 400hp "base" engine is insane. Allow me to explain why. I am almost 20yrs old, and when I got my Camaro, if it had a V8 with 400hp, i would have killed myself time and time again. And that has nothing to do with driver "skill". It is simply the maturity level of many of the drivers. This fact is exactly why insurance is insanely high for this car for people in my age group. And like has been said before, a 340hp base V8 would sell way better, because insurance would be down and more "normal" people would buy it, compared to a 400hp V8. And hey, that is what the Z28 is going to be for, the Hi-Po engine! I want to see a car that is going to be profitable for GM, while satisfying the enthusiasts. If that happens, it means that our car will be around for quite awhile.

305fan

Better then I could say myself L.A. Z--excellent logic and reasoning.

Z28x

Do you guys remember when 400HP was Supercar #'s

Z284ever

Just a quick break-away from election results.

Camaro is not Corvette. It needs to appeal and be attainable to a broader audience. I can't imagine a 400 hp Camaro being attainable to many people under 25...even if they oh, so much, lusted for it.

Maybe the base V8 won't be the 5.3 as we've been expecting. But I think the "sweet spot" at the later end of the decade, for a midlevel Camaro V8 will be in the 340-360 hp range. I can see the top V8, perhaps a 6.2L, with a healthy cam and manual trans in the 425-440 range.


Regarding V6, I just don't see how it will produce more than 240-250 hp. The rumored 3V 3.9, could see around 270...but I'm not betting on these 3v heads making production.

Forget the HF 3.6...or any HF V6 in a Camaro. That V6 probably costs more than an LS2.


Back to election coverage.......................

AronZ28

why not use the truck engine? I'm sure they will have 300-330 hp versions out by 2007, and it would be much cheaper to produce than a mini LS2 like Pacer X proposed. And we need a mid level V8 because insurance prices with the 400hp motor will make it unaffordable to most people.

Also, the 400hp LS2 should be a cheap option, with a significant number of cars built with it.(more than 10,000 LS2 cars) Also make it to where you can order the LS2 without having to check every option box. And there should be a top engine choice above the LS2 that could come out in a year or two.(to keep things fresh) And make sure that this top engine choice is reasonably priced(i.e. still a lot cheaper than a vette), and make a good number of them too(more than 5000)

L.A. Z

Yes I do. The Viper started with 400 didnt it. Or was it 450?
I know what 400hp feels like, and to say that it isnt for everyone is an understatment.

Guess Im part of the old peanut gallery.


Cant wait for Pacer's response....
Pacer, if you find error in my logic, please oh please let me have it.

L.A. Z

Ill shut up after this...

My proposal;

240hp V6 - $18-27k
325hp 5.3 V8 $22-30
395hp LS2 Z28 - $27-29k
no vert, not alot of frills, factory race suspention, lightweight wheels, big brakes, dont freaking skimp on the audio system...395hp LS2 (call it under 400, build it to make 420, list the vette at 415, ala C5/F4), hope you can drive a stick!

30-36k SS - Motor from the Z28, power about the same, but load this puppy up with heated leather, some fancy hoods and spoilers, big nice wheels, navigation system, the works (AWD??)...also the only LS2/Vert option...hence the 36k. Only LS2 available in auto. This car is for the guy who drives his car everyday, has money to burn, wants everything he can get, but will probably never dream of putting his baby on the track.

The Z28 would no doubt beat up on the SS on the track, but SS boys would think they had it made, because they wouldnt be going to the track in the first place to find out otherwise.

IZ28

Let's not get crazy here.

The 5th Gen needs and will have multiple level V8's this time. One of the reasons that the 3rd Gens and the last M*stangs sold so good was because they had something that 4th Gens didn't, choice. There are lots of us that want big power, but those that want a nice decently powered V8 car would be left out, and they are a big market. There's no need for a crazy powered V8 mid-model, it should have a little more than the GT. I'd have a setup kinda like LAZ or have the SS have all the options and a good powered V8 or even two. There is an aftermarket for a reason, let people use it. Give levels and choices, one lower powered SS and a higher one to match whatever model M*stang is at a similar level then beyond the GT. Leave an all-powerful Z28 the unattainable model for the more established buyer and to take on other top competitors. There could also be special editions to create excitement and awareness. Maybe a ZL1 or something.

Gold_Rush

Pretty much what i was thinking. A mid-level Camaro doesn't need 400hp to beat Mustang or any other car near its price range for that matter. For that reason 340-360 would do just fine. But, i think that the top of the line camaro will need something upwards of 400hp (perferably closer to 450) just to keep up with or have a chance in beating Cobra.

I don't see a base v6 having 275hp as pacer is saying. No-way, no-how. 245 seems a lot more realistic to me. And having a 400hp "midlevel" while having a 245hp base would leave you with a 150hp gap, which is too large a gap. The 400hp level wouldn't be much of a "mid-level" would it?

In order for it to be trully a mid-level, numbers would have to be closer. Assuming 245hp for the base (gotta be at or under 20 grand remember, doubt we'll see 275hp 3.9 with VVT and 3valve heads) and 440-450hp for the top model, the middle-ground would be 348hp (347.5 to be exact). I don't know, but for this mid-model to be a "real" mid-level, it will need an output somewhere closer to 350 and not 400.

Another thing, i've been asking myself ever since this mid-level model talk came into question is "where do you get this mid-model?" 4th gen really only had 3 trims....base, z28, and SS. Without getting into the SS vs z28 debate, which do you think is more likely....1) A new trim model is introduced or 2) either z28/SS will get bumbed down a notch and stuck with lower-output motor. I can't help but think the latter.

eagleknight97

I think 4 trim levels would be perfect.
Base-V6-250hp-almost any option you want
RS-"Base" V8-340hp-almost any option you want
SS-"Base" or Hi-Po V8-340-400hp-any option you want
Z28-Hi-Po V8-400hp-limited options-"race car"

unvc92camarors

why does the midlevel need even 350?
is it really necessary?
that's still a lot of power for a midlevel v8
i'm thinking 330 should be fine, jmho

305fan

You know I was thinking, almost everyone says no to the HF 3.6L DOHC V6 for a base engine. Too exspensive they say. BUT isn't Ford dumping that POS 4.0 V6 in 06 for the 3.5L DOHC engine??

Orginally I heard Ford was going with the 3.0 Duratec in the 'Stang. But for whatever reason they went with the 4.0. I thought both were just interim options until the 3.5L DOHC V6 was ready.

Any one back this up?

If Ford does it why can't GM? Be fun to run that sucker up to 6500rpm+ and sounding awesome all the way

unvc92camarors

you might lose that motivation to buy the v8 with that engine in there...
just a thought

Big Als Z

The 3.6 going in the base V6 Camaro would be a good idea...but how about this..

Base Camaro comes with the 3.5 making 200hp (about as much as the base V6 Mustang)
2nd level Camaro comes with the 3.6 making 300hp, matching the 300hp of teh Mustang GT...with 2 less cyls! What a great way to stick it to the Mustang by making the same amount of hp with a V6!
But by 07, Im sure the V6 Mustang will be at 250. I would still like to see the 3.6 make it into the Camaro.

unvc92camarors

why don't we just save that for a car that needs a performance oriented v6...