You are so correct! An easy argument could be made from that too.

 

Hey guys....even aside from wether service and reliability of imports are better or not. What does Toyota build that really appeals to the enthusiast now? Not much is the most typical answer.
The Supra is gone, and even when it was here the price tag was unbelievable. Before they lowered the prices of Supra's in 98 or 99 the Turbo versions stickered for something like 50,000 and change. A Z06 is only around that number now. I am not saying 50 large was too much for a really awesome 2+2 GT, I am saying it was too much nfor THAT 2+2 GT
Also please consider that 50 grand plus would have then easily put someone in an 98 WS6 T/A and a S-10 4x4, or a SVT Cobra and a Ranger 4x4. My point is that while the Supra was well made and quick(ugly sob though), even when they had it who could afford the hot one. (As I hinted at before they did eventually lower the price on Turbo cars some 20,000 dolllars, but can you imagine being the poor slob who just laid down around fifty large for a car and now you cant even sell it for thirty-five g's at one year old?)The car we all get tired of hearing Toyota guys drool over is coming back, but only in Japan. So no hot 2+2 for America.
Toyotas performance lineup consists of the MR2 (Reflexes like a go-cart...and come to think of it...,.acceleration like a go-cart too.....slow that is.), the Celica GTS (If you are into the high strung, high revving "Did that Supercharged Regal just eat my lunch?" kind of experience.), and in the Lexus lineup the IS and GS series cars. Both cars are fine cars in their own right, but a 5,000lb Lightning pickup would dispatch either like the Lexus was tied to a pole. Amazingly, the fastest car Toyota builds is the GS430 sedan. Nice car, but what does that say for Toyota's performance commitment?
Honda arguably does better, but to get a truly "quick" car you have top pony up over thirty large for a S2000 and that is only fast when compared to other Hondas. Who in here would buy a NSX over a Viper, ZO6, or the new Ford GT? Funny, I don't see any hands. The new Nissan Z is okay I guess, but until and "if" a Turbo version hits it isn't exactly a road missile.
Subaru builds the WRX but who is Subaru's daddy? The General. Mitsubishi has the Evo but the US gets a watered down version and it is expensive enough that it cannot be called a bargain by any standard. Also, a Ram Air F-Body or any DOHC Cobra and especially the 03 will waste an Evo.
My point is simply that no car company is going to dominate much of anything without a "balanced" program that takes every kind of large market into consideration and gives them something truly appealing. The Japanese have simple fallen down on performance models for some time now. If Ford and the General can get their images back in the game. (Making Lincoln and Cadillac truly world class luxury cars again will help...Please, finish what you started guys.) Well, the Japanese are the ones who have plenty to worry about IMO.

 

Frankly, Chrysler's only affordable enthusiast's offering worth mentioning is the SRT-4, and GM's showrooms aren't exactly flush with bang-for-the-buck performance either. So, given that, I don't see where Toyota's got a lot to fear at this point - as most of the GM fans on this board will parrot over and over again, performance cars are not what drive sales.

This doesn't make me happy, but if I put myself in the shoes of an average buyer and have a choice between two commuter-level vehicles with the same price tag but one carries a better reputation for quality, better fit and finish, and better retained resale value, I don't think that the presense or absense of a "halo" performance vehicle is going to sway my decision one way or the other.

 

I think this story belongs here.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders...ide-267236.htm

 

Last I heard Subie is largely owned by Fuji Heavy Industries. Just because Subaru might be making deals with GM to sell more vehicles or share costs, doesn't mean GM is its "daddy" the same way you wouldn't say VW is Porsche's "daddy" just because they developed the Tuareg (or whatever that thing is called) for VW.

Secondly, a nearly stock EVO 8 jets through the quarter in 13 flat, and being that it has traction at all 4 corners, it'll get there pretty consistantly on street tires. dusted? not quite. And considering its a factory car for under 35k that will outrun the F-body and keep up with the 35k blown Cobra, how is that no a bargen?

 

Because they don't sell the Evo 8 in the US. The US version is called Lancer Evolution and isn't exactly the same as the Evo 8. The US version only does a 13.8

 

the US Lancer EVO is every bit EVO 8 minus an expensive limited slip center diff and some other mostly minor stuff. and as according to C&D its 13.6 in the quarter for the factory car. let Vishnu (from C&D again) work his magic and for 2-3k you get a 13 seconds flat car. for 32k that still beats out anything else (new) for the money today. oh, and it also turns and stops pretty well too.

i mean, name examples that can claim the same (new)? the only thing that comes close in bang for buck is the Neon SRT-4. and even then, its less bang for less buck.

 

Well, I hate to burst your bubble as I am no huge fan of the Evo or the SRT4, but in the Comparo's I have seen the SRT4 has outrun the Evo down the quarter. They gave the credit to lower weight, but it really does not matter either way as both would get their lunch eaten bone stock by a 03 Mach 1 through the 1/4. Never mind a Cobra

The Cobra rings in at about five grand more than an Evo after you add on things like....destination (All of them have it, but it is nice of Mitsu to advertise the car without it) and floormats(lol). At that price the Evo is still not nearly as well equipped as a stock Cobra, and when comparably equipped you are looking at about 32 grand plus. Three thousand dollars difference.

Even at five grand worth of difference, the Cobra will outrun the US spec Evo by more than a second through the quarter mile. That is getting it handed to you my friend. And, as for the road course, in a recent MT (dangit was it Car and Driver?) comparo the snake tore the 350Z and RX8 a new one by a second and a half per lap. So I don't think you will find many Cobra drivers sweating over an Evo.

As for your 3 grand of mods to really show the Cobra something....lol. Okay, you are at what.....33 grand at least then in a stripped Evo? Okay, a Lightning blower pulley (can be found used, and is not expensive new), a cat back exhaust, and a ram air kit. (All of this might set you back a grand if you buy it all new and don't shop.) You could easily do all of this for less than five hundred if you have any mechanical skills and looked for bargains.

Okay, now my under $36,000 Cobra cranks out 500+hp (This set up is all over every Mustang mag) at the crank and your Evo will need WAAAY more than 3 grand in mods to keep up.

So no, I am not impressed with the "value" of this overachieving ricer. And, the Evo's acceleration is only as good as it is because of AWD which is only a big benefit to acceleration from a stop or out of a corner. Even so the Evo would still lose a drag race. But, think about how bad it would be if you go from a roll ?....Say 50 to 130 mph? Say bye bye to the nice Cobra.

 

Yeah the Evo is hardly a deal compared to a Cobra. If you want a import then its still not a good deal compared to a SRT-4. Besides i rather have a STI. And from a roll it would say bye bye to a lot of cars.