ReznorZ28

this isnt too serious of a topic, but where do you go from retro? And what I mean by that is take the mustang for example... over the years it has evolved and become more a more modern design while still retaining some of its old and first styling cues... but now on the new model, it is almost a carbon copy of the old 60's mustang with some new modern touches. My question is, where do they go from there? What is the next model going to offer? Are they going to work their way back up and make a retro 70's mustang, then a retro 80's mustang and so forth? Or will they come out with an original modern design?

Because I see putting out a retro design like the mustang, is kind of like putting out a greatest hits album...when a band has run its course and is just cashing in on all the good stuff they offered in the past because they have run out of ideas for the future.

what do you all think?

***btw I do like the new mustang, just so you all dont think Im being biased***

Darth Xed

Ah... the primary point of my "Just say NO! to Retro!" campaign!

Z284ever

I always thought the 4th gen was late '80s retro.

ReznorZ28

I also see a lot of 3rd gen in the 4th gen... but thats more of an evolutionary slide forward, not a retro jump back. thats in my own opinion, since they came one after the other I think its okay that they share styling from one another.

Darth Xed

Ouf.

This one got me going down two paths coming from you!

1) Since it directly followed the 3rd Gen, similarities to it would be 'evolutionary'... to be retro, you'd have to go back a significant amount of time into styling history...

2) If it was "Late 80's retro", shouldn't you 3rd Gen guys just drool all over it, since it's (a lot of 3rd Gen) what a lot of you guys want in the 5th Gen anyway?!

PaperTarget

I suppose by definition that the NEW Mustang could be considered retro. There are quite a few people like myself that really don't see this NEW Mustang as being retro. This NEW Mustang has many styling queues from older and LATE model Mustangs. Indeed, some of these styling queues were in existance on the 1994-2004 Mustangs. As an owner of a 1967 Mustang, I can tell you that this NEW Mustang is not a "carbon copy" of the older models.

I think Ford has done a great job of putting together a MODERN and improved car that completely captures the spirit of Mustang for the last 40 years. They've stayed true to the car's original intent. A 2+2 sporty car for the whole family. A car that can be easily modded by the DIYer. An inexpensive, RWD, V8 car. A car that looks good and you like to be seen driving around in. The 2005 Mustang does this and goes even further. More power (under rated 300 HP on only 87 octane), newer technology (VCT), better suspension (similar, but not the same as the Gen IV F-body), better balance (near 50/50 weight distribution), better interior materials (just looks at the F-150), etc...more than I care to list here.

Someone please define "retro" and define "modern" for me as far as cars are concerned. Where does one go from a modern design? You could go "forward". Would it then be a "futuristic" design? If so, where do you go from there? The 2005 Mustang continues to go forward in design (not just appearance) using modern materials and technologies. Funny thing is, almost no one complained about the Mustang concept as being retro. Generally everyone just loved it. The 2005 Mustang looks VERY similar to it.

Darth Xed

The new Mustang is the utter definition of "retro". As is the Thunderbird, and the Ford GT(40).

Even the 2005 Mustang's designer has said he modeled the 2005 Mustang after the 67 fastback, with a little bit of other years thrown in.

PaperTarget

Ok, simple question then, does it matter as long as you like the way it looks? IMHO the older cars had much more style than the new ones we see today. Now car designers are coming back to the older designs and saying, "Hey, there's some really nice lines here." No more Jelly Beans for me please!

Darth Xed

Absolutely!

I agree a retro styled car can be good looking.

Here are my problems with retro thogh:

1) As was mentioned early in the thread, and I have started many times prior... where do you go from here? Does the next Mustang freshening bring the look to the 69/70 Mustang? Then where? To the 71-73? Then the Mustang II? Eventually you'll end up having a retro verision of the 2004 Mustang... then what? A "double retro" car trying to retro-ize the 2005 Mustang? If you abandon retro after this model, then you have an odd piece in the Mustang history... but I guess that could be OK.

2) By so many car names going retro, what does this say for new, innovative styling? Why can't we come up with something new and fresh that looks good without plagarising the past?


That said, I think there are a few applications where retro has worked, and could have worked, these being:

A) The Beetle. This car was the same for so long, that it actually was the only look the could go. Plus it was gone a long time here in the U.S., so it wasn't "regressing" on other versions of the car.

B) PT Cruiser / Prowler. While they are very retro... they don't step on the toes of other cars in their namesakes history...well, because there are no other cars that preceeded it.

C) GTO. I think this was a legitimate place where, if the oppourtunity had presented itself, retro would have worked. GTO was gone for 30 years... there was nothing fresh in the line for so long, that retro could have worked here for reasons similar to what I stated for The Beetle.

ReznorZ28

lets face it...if the mustang was a song it would be a cover song... metallica sucks, ran out of good music, so they would cover old songs... alot of bands cover old popular tracks and they become the singles on their albums because their own stuff sucks...Puff Daddy, or P Diddy made a living off of it... But as beautiful as the new mustang is(and I really like it), I think the path that led them there was a lack of innovation... they had no interesting original concepts so they took an old car and remixed it. So now that they are there, where to next? I just cant imagine at this point what the next generation mustang is going to look like after the 2005 model.

PaperTarget

Design can only do so much when nearly all cars are basically the same. Sure there are variations: convertibles, two-seaters, etc...but the basic design is still there. Think about it, 4 wheels, a gas/deisel powered engine, drivetrain, seating room and storage space. All cars share this. Designers can only do so much with that. Cars in general aren't going to start changing drastically in looks until new power sources, new fuels and new drivetrains are produced. Until then designers are stuck.

So to answer your questions:

1) Good question. I think it's a modern design already! However, I do not think they'll design a 69/70 "retro" Mustang or Mustang II. As I've stated before the 2005 Mustang is a combination of not only 60's and 70's Mustangs but 90+ Mustangs as well. I think a sleeker looking Mustang (with hatchback) will be in the works, but that's just my opinion. However, I can guarantee the basics will be there and that is: 2+2, sporty, V8, RWD.

2) Maybe designers have run out of Jelly Bean designs. I mean really, how does one improve on the Jelly Bean? I think they've done as much as they can with it.

Darth Xed

These are cop-out excuses to me... no offense intended.

There have been cars that have 'broke the mold' over time... cars from the 40's don't look like cars from the 20's... cars from the 70's dont look like cars from the 60's.

The 84 Corvette looked like a Corvette, but was radically new.

The 1993 Dodge Intrepid changed the direction of a whole company.

There's no reason that it can't be done again.

And Cadillac CTS and Chrysler 300C are proving that this is still possible.


There are an infinite amount of designs just waiting to be thought up... Saying you can't do anything new would be like saying "I can't count any higher... I ran out of numbers".

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

Reminds me of a past quote from the head of the patent office around the last half of the 19th century. He basicly said it should be shut down becuase everything had already been invented.

I think maybe it was taken out of context, but it bears a strong resemblence to what was just said.

Personally I like the new mustang styling. It does have a LOT of past styling cues though. But I don't think this forces Ford into a Retro of the Mustang II or any other iteration. They don't have to hit a dead end....that's about as bad as saying they're running out of new design ideas.

Caps94ZODG

NOO BRING BACK THE MUSTANG II! in 2014!!

Z284ever

Yeah, I know Darth.

That's just how I feel, though.

The 3rd gen broke alot of new ground when it was introduced...both in it's styling and proportions. But it was getting pretty stale by the early '90s.

I thought the 4th gen looked pretty old ....even at it's intro in 1993. And I called it too. I always said that if they don't replace it by '95/'96/'97...it would spell the end of the F- car...as we know it.