There's a lot of hysteria atm wrt fuel prices and CAFE etc... (not to mention the depressing economy) it's forcing manufacturers to rethink their game plane for the next decade very, very carefully.

With news that GM are considering not marketing Camaro as a muscle car, I wonder what will happen to the muscle car in the near term? Will we still be driving V8s a mere decade from now? Will hybrids be dominating buyers' shopping lists? Will GM be able to readily adjust to the changing automotive climate?

 

Hybrids are going to be the muscle car of the future. An electrical motor offers 100% of its torque all of the time, and combined with a efficient turbo'd or supercharged 4-6 cyl, I think it's a very real possibility they can be made to be excellent performers.
I'm really not too worried about the economy. It goes, up, then it goes back down, it's a normal cycle. This downturn seems worse only because of the overly high highs we experienced, especially in real estate. There was no real reason real estate should have gone up 200%-300%, no supporting wage increases, no housing shortages, nothing. Much of it was rampant speculation (just like crude oil now) and emotionally based panic buying. Coupled with bad financial decisions, both by lenders and borrowers, and there was going to eventually be a crash. It will come back up, and the economy will recover.

 

Unless you're wealthy, you will probably only be driving a V8 powered car that is old.

I think that turbocharged small displacement 4 cylinder engines will replace most of the 2.0L and larger 4 cylinder engines now common in C and CD class cars, and I think that hybrid versions of those small displacement turbos will replace most of the V6's now common in CD class cars.

I could see the V8's being replaced with V6 turbos and eventually V6 engines combined with hybrids or even turbocharged four cylinder engines combined around 2.3 to 2.5L combined with hybrids.

I think that the only cars with V8's will be Corvettes or premium Cadillacs and maybe Buicks. I think that sales of full size pickups and SUV's will be a fraction of what they are today and will mostly use V6 or V8 turbo diesels.

Cars will be more expensive, and, unless wages begin to increase again, most buyers will be pushed into B and C class cars.

 

Well, it looks really bad for GM unless they can churn out a new 1.4L or >1.4L motor that gets better mileage than the current E-TEC II in the Aveo.

From the forefront of the ecnobox battlefield, this is DAKMOR for NobodycaresIwantmyV8.

 

I think the federal gov't could make some ballsy trade law changes to bring some industry back and spending back here. Our eventual (i think) decrease in war spending should help out a bunch and thats still a big variable to me. Slowly withdraw from Iraq... balance out the international trading a little... and continue to cut petroleum use and we might be alright after all.

 

1. Trade law won't work. The US has now become one of the cheapest 1st world nations for manufacture due to the plunging dollar versus the rest of the world's currency. If that doesn't bring business to the US, legislation won't likely either.

2. $12 billion per month is going to Iraq. That's money going towards something that has no return (ie: roads or education) and by what's going on, no benefit to national security either. So basically, we're pouring money into a pit. That drags down the value of our currency because we are borrowing 100% of the cost for that war. That's what you and I are going to be paying back in taxes.... with intrest.

3. A large part of our trade deficit is due to our importing so much oil to feed that Tahoe that's everyone's god-given right (according to some here) to buy if we want to. When the dollar falls compared to other currencies, even if the world doesn't increase the price of oil, we see an increase because it takes more of our currency to buy it (as well as everything else imported). Meanwhile, the real value of what's made here decreases on the world market (again the falling dollar) making our goods cheap...... guess what that does to our trade deficit?? Yep..... It increases.

4. As far as petroleum usage, if we cut our useage to what we produce on our own (we're the 3rd largest producer) plus what we buy from Canada & Mexico (our biggest importers), we'd be OK security-wise. But given the volume of oil we use, that's far beyond impossible.


If that isn't enough to get you to worry about the immediate future in the US, how about inflation.

A falling dollar plus high imports alone equals inflation. Add in the explosive price of fuel (only in the US... the rest of the world the price of fuel is pretty stable!), Federal intrest rates cut to the dirt which in effect devalues money more, the fact that countries that originally purchased US dollars to help their own markets and to finance our debt are starting to dump US dollars (plunging it even more), and the trillion $$$ we tax payers are going to owe China when this Iraq BS is over, and we're looking at the potential of returning to 70s era double digit inflation.... only this time, fueled by a bit more than energy costs and a hangover from a war.

 

I tend to agree with graham here. We ought to at least be able to tweak our laws and trade agreements, to make things a little more fair. Why are Japan's extreme trade barriers to our autos allowed to remain sky-high?
A lot of people don't really understand what the free world is facing today. Our enemy in the mideast is not a rag-tag little crew of thugs who randomly blow things up. It's an international, widely funded political movement to undermine and destroy freedom. It's perhaps the biggest threat the US has faced since the Cold War. Cost? I don't care what the cost is. We have got to stop Islamo-fascist terrorism cold as a political movement and military strategy, or we're going to face a lot of future problems. I wish people would keep some perspective here. $12B per month? We lost much more national wealth in our Civil War... in stopping **** Germany and Imperial Japan in WW II... and stopping the march of Soviet aggression in the Cold War. Freedom has never been 'cheap'. The US lost 400,000 military personnel in WW II. Every loss was tragic, but every loss was necessary.
We have plenty of energy options right here in America. Massive coal reserves... oil off our coasts and in Alaska... and nuclear tech to name a few. All we are waiting for is the political will to stand up to the greenies and use our options. It's just a matter of time (likely 5-10 years) until the farce of man-made global warming is exposed and we become rational, logical users of our available national resources.
I'm frankly, sick of people counting America out. I'm sick of the doom and gloom preached daily by our predominantly liberal talking heads on network news. I'm sick of France, Germany and other countries we spilled huge amounts of blood for, whining and suing us and saying "Oh well. The magic is over for America." You know what? America has been thru a lot worse. 1780... 1864... 1942... 1979... 2001. Look up a little US history on those years. How did we make it thru those years? It's simple. Our Constitution is an amazing, precious blueprint for a decent, righteous society. We've figured out a way to succeed and prosper, like no other nation on Earth. I think we'll find our way out of our current trifling troubles

 

I couldn't agree more. It's hard to dicern weather a large portion of the population wants America to fall on it's face or they are just very pessimistic about the country, or if it is all for political power. That's pretty sad really.

 

Well said BDF!

 

A "non-muscle car" Camaro and G8 that is rumored is a 260HP 2.0L DI Turbo out of the Solstice with an 8 speed automatic. I'd be very happy with that in my Camaro/G8.

Lutz has already said that a 1.6L + Turbo in the G8 could give the same performance as the current HF 3.6L V6 while giving 4-5 more MPG. Proof that all the crying about CAFE is over nothing.

I think the next few years are going to be very exciting. There are lots of new technology's coming out.

 

Numbers don't lie. You can wave a flag and blame the boogy man all you want but that won't fix the problems on our nations balance sheet.

 

A 240hp+ I4 with a serious transmission *might* feel pretty good, but it would take some getting used to.

But for another 4-5mpg, its *certainly* worth a shot.

My 240hp GTP has more than enough power to get me into trouble with speed for a daily driver. The same power in a [heavier] G8 might not do so well, but for a base model engine, it certainly would be something to look at.

 

I don't care about the cost either. Why should I? My grandchildren are going to be the ones who have to figure out how to pay for everything.


Alternatively, we could start taking the 'greenies' a little more seriously and start cutting back consumption across the board.


Shame, then, that we haven't taken our constitution (or the advice of the men who wrote it) seriously. I refer to our "hope" based currency and our involvement with just about every other nation's politics.


If only we could convert rampant optimism into crude oil or currency.

Although I fail to see much reason or logic in your post, I will say that positive outlooks never hurt anything. The world could use more positive outlooks.

 

Why do I not believe that for a second. I just don't see that I-4 combo giving the same area under the curve as the bigger V6. That seems like a very "peaky" powereplant where daily driving would suffer greatly.

 

If we are in a recession, I think it will be short lived.

I think it will bring business to the US. This can be seen in some of the shifting of Zeta production.

It is not being thrown into a "pit". It is being thrown at defense contractors, suppliers, etc. Most of these are in the US. This helps the economy. See WWII and its effect on the Great Depression.

It isn't our "god-given" right, but our US constitution-given right. If the price of fuel goes up, then sales of larger, thirstier vehicles will go down.

If our goods become cheaper on the international market, the trade deficit should decrease, not increase. More people will want to buy our stuff.

I don't think it is impossible, it will just take a very long time. What needs to happen is for alternative energy sources to become cost-benefitial compared to petroleum.

I think the Fed is doing an okay job with managing inflation. As long as they don't lose control of it, we should be okay.

Owing money to China is a little unnerving. However, business is booming there, and US companies will profit.


My thoughts and concerns:

We need to diversify our energy sources. If there is a true competitor to fossil fuels, then supply and demand should stabilize prices.

The situation in Iraq needs to be stabilized. This will help to stabilize the entire region. Once stabilized, it will help to control prices. The current funding will help the economy in the short term, but it should not be counted on for the long term.

Also, we don't want any knee-jerk reactions. It could have an opposite effect. Lawmakers should do some small things to nudge the economy in the right direction, but nothing drastic. We should just let things play out.