AdioSS

yeah, when I said Titanium LS7, I was talking about the rods & valves. Not the block.

And I've seen pictures of a Buick Roadmaster that had the LS1 put in by GM for testing. Several people have swapped them into their B-bodies over the years & they look right at home.

SSCamaro99_3

The GM Hotcam is not emissions compliant. Ask me how I know?

Where they going to redesign the B-bodies and add the LS series? If so I wonder if anyone has pictures.

guionM

Nope. No redesign.

GM was eliminating the LT engines, so the LS was simply going to replace them. Much like when GM got rid of the old V8s and replaced them with LT1s, and all V8 cars wound up with them, even Cadillac.

When the LS1 was being certified, GM was in the process of evaluating the future of it's RWD cars and looking at options. This included not only the B-body, but the F-body cars as well.

Camaro got a new front end only because the LS1 wouldn't fit under the hood (large center intake throttle body and snorkle versus the LT1's which was smaller, set back farther, and had a dog leg shapped intake that went to the driver's side.

The setup would be a non-issue with the B-cars.

AdioSS

Besides, how could 90s GM improve upon the looks of the 1996 Impala SS any more?

jg95z28

Is it not emissions compliant because there's no production version and it can only be compared to the production LS3, or is it because with the Hotcam its output is well beyond the maximum allowed?

HuJass

Is it because you put one in your car and it failed a smog test?

If so, you cannot compare a state's smog test to federal standards & requirements. They are not related nor are they correlatable.

Besides, a manufacturer would do it in such a way that would get it to pass. They can do things the backyard mechanic just can't.

guionM

Only the EPA and California's Air Resource Board can set emissions in the United States. Each state can choose to follow either, but can't make up their own.

Right now New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington use California's standards. Although Florida doesn't do smog checks they also use California emission standards. Arizona had California emissions standards until CARB did the electric vehicle mandate. Colorado I believe also uses California standards and I know Utah was debating it (not sure if it ever passed).

Save Texas, that's pretty much most all of the US car market. Therefore, most every "street legal" aftermarket item made today is made to pass California emissions. If it doesn't, more often than not it's left as an "off road only" part.

However, even dismissing all of this, if he has something that didn't pass his state's emission requirements, the whole question of whether or not that matters or is compatable with federal regulations is rather pointless since he lives and drives in that state where it didn't pass smog..... and I'm sure he doesn't want to be stuck with tickets or impounding fees, right?

99SilverSS

While I don't see GM putting a hotcam in the LS3 as a Z28 engine. Even if they did and essentially offered a ZL1 except with an hotcam LS3 instead of the LSA but kept all of the other ZL1 content; suspension, (MR) exhaust, and electric steering.. etc.

Let's say it's a 50hp bump to 476hp. I have no doubt it will handle at ZL1 levels. But I can't see it weighing any less than an SS and probably slightly more because of the ZL1 content.

And would there be any way to price it against its main competition; BOSS 302?
I don't see it.

SSCamaro99_3

It has a long exhaust duration, and the overlap is very close to zero. As a general rule of thumb, as overlap approaches zero and moves positive reversion increases and you get more unburned hydrocarbons at idle. Lift should affect emissions less than duration and overlap. Missouri only has the computer test. We used to be on an EPA mandated roller cycle We hooked mine up to the sniffer one time. It was not even close.

Just for reference (cam numbers off the top of my head, and not an exact representation, but rule of thumb):

Hotcam 218/228 on a 112 (((218+228)/2)/2)-112 = -0.5 overlap
C5 Z06 204/206 on a 117 (((204+206)/2)/2)-117 = -14.5 overlap
99 F-body 198/200 on a 116 (((198/200)/2)/2-116 = -16.5 overlap
ASA Cam 226/236 on a 110 (((226+236)/2)/2)-110 = 5.5 overlap
T--Rex is something like a 242/248 on a 112 (((242/248)/2)/2)-112 = 10.5 overlap

Even with a full exhaust, I would be shocked if you could get one through California's roller test.

jg95z28

I was essentially suggesting using the SS/1LE not the ZL1 as the starting point. Assuming you could get it to pass emissions (the Hotcam LS3 is rated at 480hp from GM btw), and the SS/1LE's price-point of "just under" $40k... in theory you could price this hypothetical Z28 at BOSS 302 prices (starting at ~$43k MSRP), and still make a profit and be well under ZL1's price-point.

However, if the hotcam LS3 won't pass emissions, then there isn't much point.

guionM

Plus being the LS3 is a lame duck engine, GM's not going to make any special versions or changes to the engine now.

99SilverSS

Do you think the 5th Gen will run out it's production run with the L99/LS3 or move over to the new Gen V V8 after it debuts in the C7?

Sort of like the LS1 starting in the C5 in 1997 and being put in the F-body a year later.

Second to that would the Chevy SS get the Gen V V8 too?

jg95z28

Don't forget the Gen I small block 350 cid V8 appeared in Camaro a year before it was available in the Corvette.

SSCamaro99_3

Corvette was still available with BBC power. The 350 was not the pinnacle of developement. Corvette has been first to the party for basically the last 40 years.

guionM

Don't know how GM's going to run out the 5th gen (can you believe we're talking about the end of the 5th gen already?).

I can easily see the current batch of Zetas finishing up with LS3s.

Although the 5th gen swapped to LS1s, in that instance it ran 5 seasons with that engine. The current 5th gen has (not including the current 2013 models) about 2 more. Although possible, I doubt GM would certify an engine for just a single years use in a vehicle.