US Treasury is setting up funding for a GM chapter 11 filing
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Soon we'll run out of paper to print greenbacks and there will be no more money on the planet left to borrow. So my thinking is WTF, if we are going to **** away every last cent this nation can beg or borrow --- why not come up with $100B in funny money for the auto industry? I could think of worse ways to spend that money, (AND SO WILL CONGRESS).
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
$100 billion seems like nothing compared to the trillions the BO administration is poised to spend on pork BS.
Soon we'll run out of paper to print greenbacks and there will be no more money on the planet left to borrow. So my thinking is WTF, if we are going to **** away every last cent this nation can beg or borrow --- why not come up with $100B in funny money for the auto industry? I could think of worse ways to spend that money, (AND SO WILL CONGRESS).
Soon we'll run out of paper to print greenbacks and there will be no more money on the planet left to borrow. So my thinking is WTF, if we are going to **** away every last cent this nation can beg or borrow --- why not come up with $100B in funny money for the auto industry? I could think of worse ways to spend that money, (AND SO WILL CONGRESS).
However, comparatively it's a shi*tty investment compared to the alternatives. A couple million people have lost their job in the last few months, and the taxpayers should put up $50 Billion to save 100,000 auto jobs? Let's not pretend that every GM worker with his gold-plated benefits is worth $5 Million each.
If you're going to talk about "Pork BS", put it into perspective and realize that saving the auto industry is 100% political bacon.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
To some extent you're right, now is the time when the government could spend the money to radically overhaul our auto-industry. (Let's see: where is the plan from GM to radically overhaul things?)
However, comparatively it's a shi*tty investment compared to the alternatives. A couple million people have lost their job in the last few months, and the taxpayers should put up $50 Billion to save 100,000 auto jobs? Let's not pretend that every GM worker with his gold-plated benefits is worth $5 Million each.
If you're going to talk about "Pork BS", put it into perspective and realize that saving the auto industry is 100% political bacon.
However, comparatively it's a shi*tty investment compared to the alternatives. A couple million people have lost their job in the last few months, and the taxpayers should put up $50 Billion to save 100,000 auto jobs? Let's not pretend that every GM worker with his gold-plated benefits is worth $5 Million each.
If you're going to talk about "Pork BS", put it into perspective and realize that saving the auto industry is 100% political bacon.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 162
From: St. Louis, MO
I don't care so much about them getting money. (everyone else is 
)
But when they publicy came out and said a few weeks ago "bankruptcy is not an option"
If they turn around and do a bankruptcy then they lied to my face and I'd personally like them locked up for lying to my face.
I can't have respect for a company that lies to me.
If they would have just been honest and said it's something we are considering I'd be a lot more understanding.
)But when they publicy came out and said a few weeks ago "bankruptcy is not an option"
If they turn around and do a bankruptcy then they lied to my face and I'd personally like them locked up for lying to my face.
I can't have respect for a company that lies to me.
If they would have just been honest and said it's something we are considering I'd be a lot more understanding.
Last edited by Aaron91RS; Feb 24, 2009 at 09:51 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
I don't care so much about them getting money. (everyone else is )
But when they publicy came out and said a few weeks ago "bankruptcy is not an option"
If they turn around and do a bankruptcy then they lied to my face and I'd personally liked them locked up for lying to my face.
I can't have respect for a company that lies to me.
If they would have just been honest and said it's something we are considering I'd be a lot more understanding.
)But when they publicy came out and said a few weeks ago "bankruptcy is not an option"
If they turn around and do a bankruptcy then they lied to my face and I'd personally liked them locked up for lying to my face.
I can't have respect for a company that lies to me.
If they would have just been honest and said it's something we are considering I'd be a lot more understanding.
Companies can opt for bankruptcy, creditors can also force bankruptcy.
There was talk a while ago that the government might choose to force bankruptcy in order to be first in line to recover loans which have been made.
Like I said, bankruptcy is not always initiated by a corporation. Sometimes filing for bankruptcy is a necessity to avoid a forced bankruptcy...
I don't know what the particulars are in this situation.
Last edited by 1fastdog; Feb 24, 2009 at 09:42 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 162
From: St. Louis, MO
Nothing changed in the last few weeks where they could have actually believed under NO circumstances would they have to do bankruptcy.
They knew then like they do now, that they are so in the red it's not funny.
They knew the government might force them to reorg.
They new everything then they do now.
They should have said something to the effect, that 'we will do everything in our power to try and avoid bankruptcy'
Instead they were adamint "it wasn't an option"
A fricking 10 year old knew it was an option.
They knew then like they do now, that they are so in the red it's not funny.
They knew the government might force them to reorg.
They new everything then they do now.
They should have said something to the effect, that 'we will do everything in our power to try and avoid bankruptcy'
Instead they were adamint "it wasn't an option"
A fricking 10 year old knew it was an option.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 805
From: MI
Just get it over with already. They probably should have filed for bankruptcy a while ago. All this is doing is drawing more negative media attention to GM and may have already inflicted the same type of bad image for GM in the public's eye that a bankruptcy filing would bring.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,018
Some days it's too much to think about. I grew up with GM cars, and once aspired to own them. There are one or two that I still like, but mostly what remains is a bitter taste.
I've always wondered what a HUGE restructuring would look like for GM. I guess we're about to find out...
I've always wondered what a HUGE restructuring would look like for GM. I guess we're about to find out...
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
I can understand that people need to do what's right for them to survive, and that even extends to companies. Just 6 months ago, credit was still running relatively freely, and I'm sure that many inside GM felt that they could ride things out till things got better. Even mentioning the word bankruptcy would have had serious repercussions and might have started things crashing down earlier.
But the thing that bothers me is not that things didn't become public. I understand why it didn't. What concerns me is that this was a long time coming and GM has far smarter people than me. That means that someone saw this coming miles away, and almost inevitably sounded the alarm to somebody who could have made corrections to if not avoid what eventually happened, at least made it survivable.
I don't mind the reassuring words to the public. But you don't wake up one day at the end of September or the start of October 2008 (even before the stock market crashed, or credit started drying up), and realize the a company that's been around 100 years, the planet's biggest car manufacturer is out of the blue at dire risk, and may even be within a few months away from shutting down.
GM went to Ford last summer about the possibility of merging..... and after some review, Ford ran the other direction like a scalded cat.
Details of talks like that are always confidential, but one can only imagine what Ford might have realized when it looked into it.
But the thing that bothers me is not that things didn't become public. I understand why it didn't. What concerns me is that this was a long time coming and GM has far smarter people than me. That means that someone saw this coming miles away, and almost inevitably sounded the alarm to somebody who could have made corrections to if not avoid what eventually happened, at least made it survivable.
I don't mind the reassuring words to the public. But you don't wake up one day at the end of September or the start of October 2008 (even before the stock market crashed, or credit started drying up), and realize the a company that's been around 100 years, the planet's biggest car manufacturer is out of the blue at dire risk, and may even be within a few months away from shutting down.
GM went to Ford last summer about the possibility of merging..... and after some review, Ford ran the other direction like a scalded cat.
Details of talks like that are always confidential, but one can only imagine what Ford might have realized when it looked into it.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 24, 2009 at 03:41 PM.
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Banned
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,604
From: Milton, FL
I can understand that people need to do what's right for them to survive, and that even extends to companies. Just 6 months ago, credit was still running relatively freely, and I'm sure that many inside GM felt that they could ride things out till things got better. Even mentioning the word bankruptcy would have had serious repercussions and might have started things crashing down earlier.
But the thing that bothers me is not that things didn't become public. I understand why it didn't. What concerns me is that this was a long time coming and GM has far smarter people than me. That means that someone saw this coming miles away, and almost inevitably sounded the alarm to somebody who could have made corrections to if not avoid what eventually happened, at least made it survivable.
I don't mind the reassuring words to the public. But you don't wake up one day at the end of September or the start of October 2008 (even before the stock market crashed, or credit started drying up), and realize the a company that's been around 100 years, the planet's biggest car manufacturer is out of the blue at dire risk, and may even be within a few months away from shutting down.
GM went to Ford last summer about the possibility of merging..... and after some review, Ford ran the other direction like a scalded cat.
Details of talks like that are always confidential, but one can only imagine what Ford might have realized when it looked into it.
But the thing that bothers me is not that things didn't become public. I understand why it didn't. What concerns me is that this was a long time coming and GM has far smarter people than me. That means that someone saw this coming miles away, and almost inevitably sounded the alarm to somebody who could have made corrections to if not avoid what eventually happened, at least made it survivable.
I don't mind the reassuring words to the public. But you don't wake up one day at the end of September or the start of October 2008 (even before the stock market crashed, or credit started drying up), and realize the a company that's been around 100 years, the planet's biggest car manufacturer is out of the blue at dire risk, and may even be within a few months away from shutting down.
GM went to Ford last summer about the possibility of merging..... and after some review, Ford ran the other direction like a scalded cat.
Details of talks like that are always confidential, but one can only imagine what Ford might have realized when it looked into it.
hell we were talking about it on this forum as far back as 2005 and thats as far as the search would go -- i'm sure it was being talked about prior to that.
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=409182
even back then there were
a quick google search for that linked article that is now a 404 resulted in this:
GM VEERS OFF ROAD: Automaker is ripe for bankruptcy
Its solution: Cut costs and make better cars
November 11, 2005
BY MICHAEL ELLIS and SARAH WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS
Its stock price plunged to a 13-year low Thursday after the latest in a string of financial problems dismayed shareholders once again.
Wall Street experts say the unthinkable is more likely than ever before: Michigan's largest company could be bought by a corporate raider like Las Vegas billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, forced to file for bankruptcy, or both.
Getting GM out of bankruptcy could require the same drastic cost-cutting that is racking Delphi, its largest parts supplier...
...But the facts are unavoidable: You can now buy every single share of GM stock for a mere $13.5 billion, or about $3.5 billion less than last spring.
Experts say a buyer like Kerkorian could sell GMAC (the division that lends money for everything from cars and homes to Manhattan skyscrapers) for $10 billion to $15 billion, take GM's $15 billion in cash and stock, put GM's automaking business into bankruptcy, and walk away with a huge profit.
YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT GM
Q: Might GM declare bankruptcy, like Delphi?
A: The once unthinkable now has to be a real concern -- for everybody in Michigan.
"We think it is inevitable," Bank of America said of a GM bankruptcy in a note to investors Thursday. Bank of America downgraded to 40% its odds that GM would declare bankruptcy during the next two years.
GM executives say bankruptcy is not an option. But the decision by automotive supplier Delphi Corp. to declare bankruptcy Oct. 8 makes it a very real possibility.
A GM bankruptcy would be by far the largest ever.
Q: How can GM recover?
A: Build gotta-have cars and trucks, most experts agree.
GM's new full-size SUVs and pickup trucks will go on sale next year. Falling gas prices could help sales of the trucks, which are crucial. Also:
•GM plans to close more U.S. plants, and by the end of 2008 cut 25,000 hourly jobs in an effort to cut billions of dollars in costs. Some say GM should eliminate one or two brands such as Pontiac or Buick.
•GM also is trying to sell off a majority of its financial services company GMAC, which could raise $10 billion to $15 billion.
Its solution: Cut costs and make better cars
November 11, 2005
BY MICHAEL ELLIS and SARAH WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS
Its stock price plunged to a 13-year low Thursday after the latest in a string of financial problems dismayed shareholders once again.
Wall Street experts say the unthinkable is more likely than ever before: Michigan's largest company could be bought by a corporate raider like Las Vegas billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, forced to file for bankruptcy, or both.
Getting GM out of bankruptcy could require the same drastic cost-cutting that is racking Delphi, its largest parts supplier...
...But the facts are unavoidable: You can now buy every single share of GM stock for a mere $13.5 billion, or about $3.5 billion less than last spring.
Experts say a buyer like Kerkorian could sell GMAC (the division that lends money for everything from cars and homes to Manhattan skyscrapers) for $10 billion to $15 billion, take GM's $15 billion in cash and stock, put GM's automaking business into bankruptcy, and walk away with a huge profit.
YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT GM
Q: Might GM declare bankruptcy, like Delphi?
A: The once unthinkable now has to be a real concern -- for everybody in Michigan.
"We think it is inevitable," Bank of America said of a GM bankruptcy in a note to investors Thursday. Bank of America downgraded to 40% its odds that GM would declare bankruptcy during the next two years.
GM executives say bankruptcy is not an option. But the decision by automotive supplier Delphi Corp. to declare bankruptcy Oct. 8 makes it a very real possibility.
A GM bankruptcy would be by far the largest ever.
Q: How can GM recover?
A: Build gotta-have cars and trucks, most experts agree.
GM's new full-size SUVs and pickup trucks will go on sale next year. Falling gas prices could help sales of the trucks, which are crucial. Also:
•GM plans to close more U.S. plants, and by the end of 2008 cut 25,000 hourly jobs in an effort to cut billions of dollars in costs. Some say GM should eliminate one or two brands such as Pontiac or Buick.
•GM also is trying to sell off a majority of its financial services company GMAC, which could raise $10 billion to $15 billion.
Last edited by anasazi; Feb 24, 2009 at 05:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 164
From: Korea
Gm
They didn't have one.
We can talk all we want about union concessions, or how GM was catching up to (or surpassing) Toyota and Honda in quality. Even if the economy hadn't tanked, would the Japanese automakers sit still and let GM take over? The Koreans? Even if we were still at 14 million units a year...when does GM start earning money, erasing debt, and start beating back the competition?
Government assisted restructuring is the only way to save GM. In the past two decades, they have not shown the ability to do it themselves. Time to give the new Obama administration a crack at it. Maybe they'll even give us a Z-28 as an "earmark" in the bailout they pass for Detroit.
But...for all of our sakes...and despite all of their flaws...I really do hope they make it. Long live GM!
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
I'll spare you all my laborious lecture on what could have been.
One interesting thing in the original WSJ article got my attention, but apparently nobody else's...
Direct quote from the WSJ article...
"Advising the Treasury on the GM-Chrysler situation are law firms Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP and Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP, and the New York investment-banking firm of Rothschild Inc."
TWO law firms and ONE BANK advising the US Treasury on MONETARY POLICY.
Everywhere I tell you... everything and everywhere.
Here naysayer... here kitty-kitty... here little naysayer... c'mon girl...
One interesting thing in the original WSJ article got my attention, but apparently nobody else's...
Direct quote from the WSJ article...
"Advising the Treasury on the GM-Chrysler situation are law firms Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP and Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP, and the New York investment-banking firm of Rothschild Inc."
TWO law firms and ONE BANK advising the US Treasury on MONETARY POLICY.
Everywhere I tell you... everything and everywhere.
Here naysayer... here kitty-kitty... here little naysayer... c'mon girl...
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Unfortunately I almost see it as the only option now. I don't know how they can get passed this mess w/o it to be honest. But i'm just your avg deg. Eng and really know nothing about "economics and finances".
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 654
From: Snow Belt, PA
the bigger problem is with the CEO's and such...
The CEO of GM makes something like $26 million/yr???
WTF!?!?!
Why would you be getting paid that much to run a company into the ground. The higher ups should be forced to front a large portion of their own money to get the company out of the hole. They put it there.
The CEO of GM makes something like $26 million/yr???
WTF!?!?!
Why would you be getting paid that much to run a company into the ground. The higher ups should be forced to front a large portion of their own money to get the company out of the hole. They put it there.
