Unions aren't the problem (according to the UAW)
02-23-2007, 09:22 AM
#1
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Unions aren't the problem (according to the UAW)
Detroit Wants Helping Hand from Washington
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/0...eres-the-love/
Domestic auto makers and the United Auto Workers have joined together to call for greater support from the White House. The two groups, which normally oppose one another over labor issues, agree that the U.S. government should provide them with more assistance in competing in today's global economy. UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, speaking last night in Michigan, said: "The unions aren't the problem. You've got a president of the United States who wouldn't even come here to discuss the problem." President Bush had met with the chief executives of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., and the Chrysler Group at the White House in January to discuss industry challenges. According to the Wall Street Journal, Gettelfinger went on to blame the Bush administration's positions on foreign exchange and trade for his group's troubles. "We believe in trade — we believe in fair trade," he said. "We don't believe in free trade where we come up on the short end of the stick. The working-class people are not represented in any of these trade discussions." Gettelfinger did not mention in his speech the more than 100,000 working-class Americans employed by foreign automakers like Toyota.
02-23-2007, 10:35 AM
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I especially liked this comment.....
"Sure we don’t need American auto plant’s your kid’s can work for wal mart as a greeter and you can save that money for college they won’t need it.
Comment by A TREMARI - February 22, 2007 at 3:54 pm"
I think we've truly fooled ourselves that there will be no consequences with this industries current pace of destruction. There will be no repercussions.
If my math is right. 300 million Americans. 7 million employed directly and indirectly by the domestic auto industry. 2.3% of the US population has jobs because of the American auto industry.
Remove the jobs of 2.3% of America's population. Estimate median income 50k times 7m equals 350B. What's the outcome? What happens? Jobless rate hit new time high? (Estimate 7.3%)?
"Sure we don’t need American auto plant’s your kid’s can work for wal mart as a greeter and you can save that money for college they won’t need it.
Comment by A TREMARI - February 22, 2007 at 3:54 pm"
I think we've truly fooled ourselves that there will be no consequences with this industries current pace of destruction. There will be no repercussions.
If my math is right. 300 million Americans. 7 million employed directly and indirectly by the domestic auto industry. 2.3% of the US population has jobs because of the American auto industry.
Remove the jobs of 2.3% of America's population. Estimate median income 50k times 7m equals 350B. What's the outcome? What happens? Jobless rate hit new time high? (Estimate 7.3%)?
Last edited by Derek M; 02-23-2007 at 10:39 AM.
02-23-2007, 10:37 AM
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Wait a minute here!
I just read the posts on this thread.
Is this the same group that's thrashed tarriffs that other countries throw up against our products, recognize that US automakers abandoned investment in cars in favor of trucks which Japanese (and Korean) brands took full advantage of, and believe the press is egging on the misconception that Toyota builds better vehicles than GM or Ford?
I also recall a thread here when Dubya kept snubbing the US auto industry and told them they have to "compete", all the while seemingly undermining the US industry efforts have fair trade with other nations.
Guess we either have short memories, or it's much easier to resort to bashing "The Unions".
That is sooooo 90s.
I just read the posts on this thread.
Is this the same group that's thrashed tarriffs that other countries throw up against our products, recognize that US automakers abandoned investment in cars in favor of trucks which Japanese (and Korean) brands took full advantage of, and believe the press is egging on the misconception that Toyota builds better vehicles than GM or Ford?
I also recall a thread here when Dubya kept snubbing the US auto industry and told them they have to "compete", all the while seemingly undermining the US industry efforts have fair trade with other nations.
Guess we either have short memories, or it's much easier to resort to bashing "The Unions".
That is sooooo 90s.
02-23-2007, 11:28 AM
#8
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If my math is right. 300 million Americans. 7 million employed directly and indirectly by the domestic auto industry. 2.3% of the US population has jobs because of the American auto industry.
Remove the jobs of 2.3% of America's population. Estimate median income 50k times 7m equals 350B. What's the outcome? What happens? Jobless rate hit new time high? (Estimate 7.3%)?
Remove the jobs of 2.3% of America's population. Estimate median income 50k times 7m equals 350B. What's the outcome? What happens? Jobless rate hit new time high? (Estimate 7.3%)?
The point it, economies evolve. Some industries whither and die while new ones spring up to take their place. Capital is naturally put to work where it's going to gain the greatest return (and nowadays, that's mostly not in manufacturing). That is a good mechanism because seeking higher returns is what causes economies to grow and expand. Although such change undoubtedly causes pain in localized areas, overall it tends to be good for the economy. No one likes to see jobs disappear, especially ones with such emotional attachment as the auto industry, but to artificially support otherwise non-viable industries (except in strategic cases) is not good for the economy.
02-23-2007, 12:23 PM
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Guy, I agree completely re: tariffs. We should use our leverage to force other contries to lower tariffs on our goods.
That is a problem, and the UAW is a problem. Its not one or the other and the union chief is just trying to deflect legitmate criticism. Its two separate issues that both need to be addressed.
That is a problem, and the UAW is a problem. Its not one or the other and the union chief is just trying to deflect legitmate criticism. Its two separate issues that both need to be addressed.
02-23-2007, 01:43 PM
#10
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Guy, I agree completely re: tariffs. We should use our leverage to force other contries to lower tariffs on our goods.
That is a problem, and the UAW is a problem. Its not one or the other and the union chief is just trying to deflect legitmate criticism. Its two separate issues that both need to be addressed.
That is a problem, and the UAW is a problem. Its not one or the other and the union chief is just trying to deflect legitmate criticism. Its two separate issues that both need to be addressed.
02-23-2007, 02:46 PM
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In 2004, the U.S.-Japan bilateral automotive trade deficit reached $44.2 billion, making it the largest sectoral trade deficit the U.S. maintains with any country.
In 2004, Japan exported to the United States over 1.7 million passenger vehicles and a substantial amount of auto parts worth a total of $46 billion. During the same time, Japan imported just 15,000 passenger vehicles and auto parts from the United States worth a total of $1.8 billion.
So in 2004 we had $1.8 billion in parts being exported to Japan that’s good for the US. Japan imported $46 billion in parts to the US, thus the net is a staggering negative $46 billion.
The weak Yen and strong Dollar relationship make it near impossible for us to provide any export to Japan, virtually locked out of the market. Other figures have shown that the Japanese have a multi thousand dollar advantage per vehicle just in the hard costs. Making again the US domestic equivalent vehicle much less profitable if any when you have it competitively to the market.
In summary the imports manufacturers have a “built-in” huge margin per vehicle when imported into the US, compared with little to no margin for a domestic manufacturer having a comparable priced vehicle in the US.
If exporting vehicles from Japan wasn't such a profitable way of operation, surely for example Toyota would have more than just four final assembly plants here in the US. They have after all been doing business here since 1957.
The North American market is Japan's most profitable market bar none. Earnings from 2006 showed 13B in profit for Toyota. Something is working to their advantage.
Dumbing down our way of life, wages, salaries, and general to match what an equivalent person in SE Asia would make for the same job is not the solution. We have the most to loose, and freely giving it away to match salaries of other countries isn't the solution.
Last edited by Derek M; 02-23-2007 at 03:24 PM.
02-23-2007, 03:07 PM
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What about the following is a UAW problem?
In 2004, the U.S.-Japan bilateral automotive trade deficit reached $44.2 billion, making it the largest sectoral trade deficit the U.S. maintains with any country.
In 2004, Japan exported to the United States over 1.7 million passenger vehicles and a substantial amount of auto parts worth a total of $46 billion. During the same time, Japan imported just 15,000 passenger vehicles and auto parts from the United States worth a total of $1.8 billion.
So in 2004 we had $1.8 billion in parts being exported to Japan that’s good for the US. Japan imported $46 billion in parts to the US, thus the net is a staggering negative $46 billion.
The weak Yen and strong Dollar relationship make it near impossible for us to provide any export to Japan, virtually locked out of the market. Other figures have shown that the Japanese have a multi thousand dollar advantage per c vehicle just in the hard costs. Making again the US domestic equivalent vehicle much less profitable if any when you have it competitively to the market.
In summary the imports manufacturers have a “built-in” huge margin per vehicle when imported into the US, compared with little to no margin for a domestic manufacturer having a comparable priced vehicle in the US.
If exporting vehicles from Japan wasn't such a profitable way of operation, surely for example Toyota would have more than just four final assembly plants here in the US. They have after all been doing business here since 1957.
The North American market is Japan's most profitable market bar none. Earnings from 2006 showed 13B in profit for Toyota. Something is working to their advantage.
Dumbing down our way of life, wages, salaries, and general to match what an equivalent person in SE Asia would make for the same job is not the solution. We have the most to loose, and freely giving it away to match salaries of other countries isn't the solution.
In 2004, the U.S.-Japan bilateral automotive trade deficit reached $44.2 billion, making it the largest sectoral trade deficit the U.S. maintains with any country.
In 2004, Japan exported to the United States over 1.7 million passenger vehicles and a substantial amount of auto parts worth a total of $46 billion. During the same time, Japan imported just 15,000 passenger vehicles and auto parts from the United States worth a total of $1.8 billion.
So in 2004 we had $1.8 billion in parts being exported to Japan that’s good for the US. Japan imported $46 billion in parts to the US, thus the net is a staggering negative $46 billion.
The weak Yen and strong Dollar relationship make it near impossible for us to provide any export to Japan, virtually locked out of the market. Other figures have shown that the Japanese have a multi thousand dollar advantage per c vehicle just in the hard costs. Making again the US domestic equivalent vehicle much less profitable if any when you have it competitively to the market.
In summary the imports manufacturers have a “built-in” huge margin per vehicle when imported into the US, compared with little to no margin for a domestic manufacturer having a comparable priced vehicle in the US.
If exporting vehicles from Japan wasn't such a profitable way of operation, surely for example Toyota would have more than just four final assembly plants here in the US. They have after all been doing business here since 1957.
The North American market is Japan's most profitable market bar none. Earnings from 2006 showed 13B in profit for Toyota. Something is working to their advantage.
Dumbing down our way of life, wages, salaries, and general to match what an equivalent person in SE Asia would make for the same job is not the solution. We have the most to loose, and freely giving it away to match salaries of other countries isn't the solution.
02-23-2007, 03:23 PM
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02-23-2007, 04:06 PM
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What about the following is a UAW problem?
In 2004, the U.S.-Japan bilateral automotive trade deficit reached $44.2 billion, making it the largest sectoral trade deficit the U.S. maintains with any country.
In 2004, Japan exported to the United States over 1.7 million passenger vehicles and a substantial amount of auto parts worth a total of $46 billion. During the same time, Japan imported just 15,000 passenger vehicles and auto parts from the United States worth a total of $1.8 billion.
So in 2004 we had $1.8 billion in parts being exported to Japan that’s good for the US. Japan imported $46 billion in parts to the US, thus the net is a staggering negative $46 billion.
The weak Yen and strong Dollar relationship make it near impossible for us to provide any export to Japan, virtually locked out of the market. Other figures have shown that the Japanese have a multi thousand dollar advantage per vehicle just in the hard costs. Making again the US domestic equivalent vehicle much less profitable if any when you have it competitively to the market.
In summary the imports manufacturers have a “built-in” huge margin per vehicle when imported into the US, compared with little to no margin for a domestic manufacturer having a comparable priced vehicle in the US.
If exporting vehicles from Japan wasn't such a profitable way of operation, surely for example Toyota would have more than just four final assembly plants here in the US. They have after all been doing business here since 1957.
The North American market is Japan's most profitable market bar none. Earnings from 2006 showed 13B in profit for Toyota. Something is working to their advantage.
Dumbing down our way of life, wages, salaries, and general to match what an equivalent person in SE Asia would make for the same job is not the solution. We have the most to loose, and freely giving it away to match salaries of other countries isn't the solution.
In 2004, the U.S.-Japan bilateral automotive trade deficit reached $44.2 billion, making it the largest sectoral trade deficit the U.S. maintains with any country.
In 2004, Japan exported to the United States over 1.7 million passenger vehicles and a substantial amount of auto parts worth a total of $46 billion. During the same time, Japan imported just 15,000 passenger vehicles and auto parts from the United States worth a total of $1.8 billion.
So in 2004 we had $1.8 billion in parts being exported to Japan that’s good for the US. Japan imported $46 billion in parts to the US, thus the net is a staggering negative $46 billion.
The weak Yen and strong Dollar relationship make it near impossible for us to provide any export to Japan, virtually locked out of the market. Other figures have shown that the Japanese have a multi thousand dollar advantage per vehicle just in the hard costs. Making again the US domestic equivalent vehicle much less profitable if any when you have it competitively to the market.
In summary the imports manufacturers have a “built-in” huge margin per vehicle when imported into the US, compared with little to no margin for a domestic manufacturer having a comparable priced vehicle in the US.
If exporting vehicles from Japan wasn't such a profitable way of operation, surely for example Toyota would have more than just four final assembly plants here in the US. They have after all been doing business here since 1957.
The North American market is Japan's most profitable market bar none. Earnings from 2006 showed 13B in profit for Toyota. Something is working to their advantage.
Dumbing down our way of life, wages, salaries, and general to match what an equivalent person in SE Asia would make for the same job is not the solution. We have the most to loose, and freely giving it away to match salaries of other countries isn't the solution.
You talk about how the margin is built in b/c of the price difference in the Yen and dollar, well if operating costs were lower, wouldn't that have the same effect? How much do you think the manufacturing employees of these companies are making? Of the plants in the US that Toyota has built, are there any unions (I honestly don't know the answer to that)?
Other things to think about. If people want to make more money and a higher standard of living, get a good education and work hard.