Just to name a few of the more exceptional examples:

Cobalt SS Supercharged

Solstice GXP

Ion Redline

Grand Prix GXP

Sky Redline

GTO

 

You've got to be kidding.

Supercharged Cobalt SS
Impala & Monte Carlo SS
Trailblazer SS
GTO
Solstice & Sky GXP
Grand Prix GXP
CTS-V
STS-V
XLR-V

 

Like Wild ***** said, not much in the way of Chevys. If your performance needs are not met by the Cobalt SS or the Corvette...you're done at the Chevy store. There are no other serious efforts.

Hopefully, with the Camaro, and new Impala and Malibu, that will all change. And speaking of Camaro - while we've got about a half a dozen or so threads going, regarding how to mod a 500 hp or 600 hp Camaro - to ummm, get more power, I personally am very interested in how the base Camaro will be.

Will it's chassis dynamics be as sweet as a BMW? I hope so, and for the first time, it is realistic to actually expect that. Will it have a functional, no-nonsense interior? Will you be able to get a great base powertrain, combined with a great chassis for low 20's? If you can get all that, Camaro will be a game changer. If not, it will be yet another opportunity lost by GM.

 

a low weight, no nonsense car that car handle decently, I could see something like that paving the way. I just don't see the interior as of yet, still shakey on the interior.

 

I'm shakey about the interior as well. But I still think that it might be possible that the most basic 5th gen, might be more fun to drive that my '89, G92, M5, IROC. I'm hopeful, anyway.

 

THANK you. I was about to hurl, reading all this BMW-fawning. Sure, BMW's are finely engineered machines. But somewhere along the way they forgot about VALUE. BMW's are a very poor value for the performance dollar. Nowadays, it really does, IMAO, say someone is a STUPID rich snob if they're tooling around in a new BMW for its performance.

 

Not neccesarily.

I could get two CTS-Vs for what one M5 cost... But Ill bet you that M5 is a lot more forgiving as a daily driver, a lot more predictable, etc.

There are reason to buy them even though better performance can be had for less.

 

I don't know. It sounds like they're better engineered and designed for a performance and comfort compromise than anything else out there. How is it stupid to buy the best? And how is that poor value?

I don't own a BMW, but I have driven them, and they are very nice. A 328i with leather is available for 32500MSRP. That is about the same as a CTS 3.6, which is bigger, but also slower. It doesn't seem so out of whack to me on the value side. Of course, the CTS can be had these days at a significant discount....

 

2 CTS-V's for the price of one M5, and you also get 2 broken rear ends, crappy shifter, most dealers load them with crappier suspension and the crappy run flats, crappy interior....

Let's not go nuts here Like Good Ph.D said, there are reasons for both cars to exist at their respective price points. Even though the V has those shortcomings, it is still a hell of a car and everytime I get behind the wheel it is a fun time.

 

Its kind of like a Dyson Vacuum.

There are $40 vacuums, and there are $100 Vacuums. The $100 Vacuum is probably twice as good as the one for $40.

However, a $400 Vacuum is certainly not four times better than a $100 Vacuum.

 

Okay, but how does that apply to BMW value? We're not talking 10X or even 2.5X here -- more like 1.05x in 3 versus CTS.

 

That's a valid point. But the CTS is generally comparable in price to the 3.

I really prefer to compare the CTS to to 5, since they're about the same size. I'd say a CTS gives you 90% (maybe 95%) of the 5's performance (excluding M5), for 75% of the price.

Of course, if you drive both of them, the first thing you'll notice is that 5 or 10% difference.

 

Yes, the CTS is closer in size to the 5. But it's really marketed against the 3 [ one size bigger for free! ], just like the G35, which is much closer to the CTS in size than it is to the 3.

It's really legitimate to compare against both, depending on whether you're buying by size or by price. For me, the extra size of the CTS is a disadvantage (more road hugging weight!), but if I needed a bigger trunk and back seat, it would be an advantage.

 

First, appologies for re-opening an old thread-

Second, this guy must be a GM dealer- after I said I didn't want a two-seater, and that GM doesn't build any enthusiast's car for me, this is what he offers- I should have also made clear that I don't see FWD as an enthusiast's car, though I will change my mind as soon as I see any NASCAR, fuelie rail, or LeMans/CART car using it-



Like I said, almost nothing for me- the GTO, maybe, can't get 4-doors though which is nice in case you actually carry more than one passenger ocaissionaly. The GTO is close, RWD, V-8, maybe GM could figure out how to build a car like this in the US? Ever try a power-slide in Grand Prix or a Redline? How about a little burnout in the Cobalt? I don't know about you, but 300 HP through the wheels I am trying to steer with is just so wrong- Great for econo- cars, but I notice Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes and anybody else that cares about handling and performance doesn't build too many of them......

Solstice? Isn't that a 2-seater? Like the vette, nice for "fun" car, not something I could use as a daily driver. I have written GM directly, and told them that the only thing they build I even look twice at is a RWD V-8 truck, and that is not what I want for driving excitement- guess I will be looking elsewhere when it is time to retire the Z28....

 

Check the news this week-- either Wednesday or Thursday. Look for "G8".