UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
03-22-2011, 05:21 PM
#16
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
You guys are getting all worked up over nothing.
This is standard rhetoric during contract years.
Each side sticks out their chest and makes demands of the other side.
Each side make strong and wild demands.
In the end, they'll come to an amicable agreement.
This is standard rhetoric during contract years.
Each side sticks out their chest and makes demands of the other side.
Each side make strong and wild demands.
In the end, they'll come to an amicable agreement.
03-22-2011, 05:51 PM
#17
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
Class warfare routine is getting old and played out, but I see it still gets thrown out there. Basically it's an excuse to not blame yourself for anything bad that happens to you. Rich people steal from the poor and want the children of these people to starve is basically what I get from the lefties. It's never because those people dropped out of school, had 4 kids before they were 20, etc...
03-22-2011, 07:17 PM
#18
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
That's where pro-union people can't seem to see reason.
They'll take offense to that statement and ask you why just because somebody has a degree they 'deserve' to make more money.
To that I try to reason with them that having a degree doesn't assure you anything, but being able to do a job that most people are incapable of doing without going through that same educational process means that the laws of supply and demand dictate a higher wage for that person, than a person doing a job that basically any high school dropout could do with a month or less of hands on training.
The only reason the union guy will make as much or more money as the person with a more unique and demanded skill set is that the union, by nature, upsets the balance of supply and demand determining wages by holding the company hostage with the threat of shutting their labor down entirely if they don't pay up.
I seriously don't understand how this doesn't make sense to union people. They are getting paid far more than they are worth.
They'll take offense to that statement and ask you why just because somebody has a degree they 'deserve' to make more money.
To that I try to reason with them that having a degree doesn't assure you anything, but being able to do a job that most people are incapable of doing without going through that same educational process means that the laws of supply and demand dictate a higher wage for that person, than a person doing a job that basically any high school dropout could do with a month or less of hands on training.
The only reason the union guy will make as much or more money as the person with a more unique and demanded skill set is that the union, by nature, upsets the balance of supply and demand determining wages by holding the company hostage with the threat of shutting their labor down entirely if they don't pay up.
I seriously don't understand how this doesn't make sense to union people. They are getting paid far more than they are worth.
Last edited by falchulk; 03-22-2011 at 07:19 PM.
03-22-2011, 07:39 PM
#19
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
Wages in the 'real world' are determined by the free market. The free market determines these wages by balancing out the supply of people with certain skills/capabilities (whether this is natural talent, learned through experience, or learned through education makes no difference in most cases), with the demand for people with those capabilities.
And then you have union jobs, where people only get paid what they get paid because their union effectively holds their employer ransom.
So, like I said, union people are getting paid far more than they are worth (according to the free market).
Last edited by Threxx; 03-22-2011 at 07:42 PM.
03-22-2011, 08:55 PM
#20
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Location: Pewee Valley, KY
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
03-22-2011, 11:11 PM
#21
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
03-23-2011, 02:07 AM
#22
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I don't blame anyone for trying to earn as much as anyone will pay them. Ford got concessions from the UAW to survive and has done well since the last contract. I can't fault them for asking for what they gave up back. Somewhere in between what they have now and what they had before they will end up with. This is all part of the negotiation.
These are fellow middle class Americans and if Ford succeeds and they do then we all are better off. This was the idea behind Henry Ford’s $5 per day wage. GM and Chrysler got a free pass but Ford is still surviving in a free market economy. Getting it’s labor costs in line is part of the game.
These are fellow middle class Americans and if Ford succeeds and they do then we all are better off. This was the idea behind Henry Ford’s $5 per day wage. GM and Chrysler got a free pass but Ford is still surviving in a free market economy. Getting it’s labor costs in line is part of the game.
03-23-2011, 07:34 AM
#23
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
"Crediting the line workers for Ford's turnaround is like praising the impact wrench used to change the tires on the winning car at the Daytona 500. Sure, the impact played a role but it would be sitting around doing nothing if it weren't for the guidance of intelligent hands."
I respect the men and women who assemble our cars. It's physically demanding work I am sure. I agree that it would sure be nice when Ford's success is spread around to everyone, and I believe it will be. But it's a bit premature to make the assumption that Ford is out of the woods, and that the good times should start rolling again. Are they honestly going to ask for something as ludicrous as the Jobs Bank back? Let's just assume for now that this is where the negotiations start, not where they end.
03-23-2011, 07:45 AM
#24
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
Not so much classes, but citizens vs. corporation. There are a lot of ignorant people on the left and right that think governments and corporations are looking out for their best interests. They cry about corporate taxes being to high even though many, if not most don't pay any tax. Sad fact is I paid more sales tax on the sandwich I got for lunch today than GE or Bank of America paid in tax all last year.
03-23-2011, 08:00 AM
#25
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
I forgot though only "rich people" go to college.
03-23-2011, 08:05 AM
#26
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
As if anyone couldn't see this coming, right? 
It appears that what sticks in the craws of the workers is the executive bonuses. Well quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could argue that Allan Mullaly has not done a helluva job. Whatever bonus he's getting (which is in stock options I believe, which is not mentioned in the article), he's earned.
There is no other business in the world that I can think of where workers have (or feel they are entitled to) a say in the balance between executive/management pay and worker bee pay. After everything that has happened the union leadership STILL wants to operate like it's the 1950's. One or two years of profitability does not in any way make up for the decade-plus of losses. It's like asking the guy who just got off his deathbed to go run a marathon.
It is the UAW's responsibility to get the most they can for their membership. I get that. Asking for every single concession back is hopefully just a bargaining point at which to begin, not an all-or-nothing demand.
It appears that what sticks in the craws of the workers is the executive bonuses. Well quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could argue that Allan Mullaly has not done a helluva job. Whatever bonus he's getting (which is in stock options I believe, which is not mentioned in the article), he's earned.
There is no other business in the world that I can think of where workers have (or feel they are entitled to) a say in the balance between executive/management pay and worker bee pay. After everything that has happened the union leadership STILL wants to operate like it's the 1950's. One or two years of profitability does not in any way make up for the decade-plus of losses. It's like asking the guy who just got off his deathbed to go run a marathon.
It is the UAW's responsibility to get the most they can for their membership. I get that. Asking for every single concession back is hopefully just a bargaining point at which to begin, not an all-or-nothing demand.
Is Alan Mulally overpaid? United Auto Workers President Bob King seems to think so. King went on the attack at the lucrative pay package of the Ford Motor CEO, saying it was "morally wrong" that Mulally received stock worth about $54.5 million from the company.
Mulally, who engineered the turnaround at the nation's No. 2 automaker, got 3.8 million shares of stock earlier this month for meeting performance goals set by the company two years ago, according to a company filing. His full compensation package has yet to be disclosed.
"I think Alan Mulally is a great CEO, but I don't think any human being in the world deserves that much money. I think it's outrageous," said King, speaking to reporters during a three-day union convention in Detroit. King's remarks come as the union prepares for the first set of labor negotiations with U.S. automakers since the bankruptcies at General Motors (GM) and Chrysler Group.
"I like Alan Mulally. But I just think it's morally wrong," said King, who assumed the leadership of the union last year. "It creates problems for Ford in both the salaried work force and the hourly work force. It seems like one individual is getting all of the gain."
King wouldn't get into details about the union's goals for upcoming negotiations, other than to say it wants to restore some of the concessions made during the crisis four years ago, along with other concessions it made in the intervening years. The current contracts with Ford, GM and Chrysler all expire Sept. 14.
Of the two-tier wage scale agreed to for new hires, King said the $14 an hour for entry-level workers is not enough to maintain a middle-class standard of living. But he added, "In fairness we don't want to make the companies we have a good relationship with uncompetitive in the market place."
Ford spokesman John Stoll said King's remarks will not impact upcoming labor talks on a new contracts for Ford's 40,600 UAW members.
"We have a history of working collaboratively together to find solutions to critical issues, and we look forward to our discussions with them later this year," said Stoll. "In terms of the comments made about compensation, Alan Mulally's leadership during 2010 has been widely recognized as extraordinary."
Mulally has been CEO of Ford since 2006, coming in when the company was generally seen as the weakest of the three U.S. automakers. Ford was the only U.S. automaker to avoid both a federal government bailout and a trip through bankruptcy in 2009.
The company earned $6.6 billion in 2010, its best result since 1999, and enough to pay UAW members at the company an average of $5,000 each in profit sharing bonuses.
Ford stock (F, Fortune 500) closed at $14.34 Tuesday, well above the low of $1.50 a share early in 2009, but down from its high of nearly $19 a share in January of this year.
Dave Cole, chairman emeritus of the Center for Automotive Research, a Michigan think tank, said he's not surprised by King's comments, and he doesn't think it's a sign of difficult labor negotiations ahead. He said attacking large pay packages is "business as usual.
"If he comes across too soft, he risks losing his membership," said Cole.
Mulally, who engineered the turnaround at the nation's No. 2 automaker, got 3.8 million shares of stock earlier this month for meeting performance goals set by the company two years ago, according to a company filing. His full compensation package has yet to be disclosed.
"I think Alan Mulally is a great CEO, but I don't think any human being in the world deserves that much money. I think it's outrageous," said King, speaking to reporters during a three-day union convention in Detroit. King's remarks come as the union prepares for the first set of labor negotiations with U.S. automakers since the bankruptcies at General Motors (GM) and Chrysler Group.
"I like Alan Mulally. But I just think it's morally wrong," said King, who assumed the leadership of the union last year. "It creates problems for Ford in both the salaried work force and the hourly work force. It seems like one individual is getting all of the gain."
King wouldn't get into details about the union's goals for upcoming negotiations, other than to say it wants to restore some of the concessions made during the crisis four years ago, along with other concessions it made in the intervening years. The current contracts with Ford, GM and Chrysler all expire Sept. 14.
Of the two-tier wage scale agreed to for new hires, King said the $14 an hour for entry-level workers is not enough to maintain a middle-class standard of living. But he added, "In fairness we don't want to make the companies we have a good relationship with uncompetitive in the market place."
Ford spokesman John Stoll said King's remarks will not impact upcoming labor talks on a new contracts for Ford's 40,600 UAW members.
"We have a history of working collaboratively together to find solutions to critical issues, and we look forward to our discussions with them later this year," said Stoll. "In terms of the comments made about compensation, Alan Mulally's leadership during 2010 has been widely recognized as extraordinary."
Mulally has been CEO of Ford since 2006, coming in when the company was generally seen as the weakest of the three U.S. automakers. Ford was the only U.S. automaker to avoid both a federal government bailout and a trip through bankruptcy in 2009.
The company earned $6.6 billion in 2010, its best result since 1999, and enough to pay UAW members at the company an average of $5,000 each in profit sharing bonuses.
Ford stock (F, Fortune 500) closed at $14.34 Tuesday, well above the low of $1.50 a share early in 2009, but down from its high of nearly $19 a share in January of this year.
Dave Cole, chairman emeritus of the Center for Automotive Research, a Michigan think tank, said he's not surprised by King's comments, and he doesn't think it's a sign of difficult labor negotiations ahead. He said attacking large pay packages is "business as usual.
"If he comes across too soft, he risks losing his membership," said Cole.
Last edited by scott9050; 03-23-2011 at 08:07 AM.
03-23-2011, 09:38 AM
#27
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
"I think Alan Mulally is a great CEO, but I don't think any human being in the world deserves that much money. I think it's outrageous
If Ford Motor Company feels Alan Mulally is worth that much money to their company, it's the business of Ford's BOD and Alan Mulally. Period. It certainly isn't any business of the worker bees' leadership. If you don't agree with it, find a nice Socialist/Communist country to move your happy butts to, or find a new place of employment.
03-23-2011, 09:57 AM
#28
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Location: FFX, VA
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
1. You earned your pay over time and, I can only guess, achievements. Not simply because your company turned a profit.
2. Just because your company makes a profit, doesn't make you automatically entitled to it. Pay is earned by the individual. Fords CEO earned his (IMO overpaid) pay. He orchestrated the turn around. Line workers... Well kept on being line workers.
A person earns their pay. Why is this so hard to comprehend to unions.
03-23-2011, 10:55 AM
#29
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 429
Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
I disagree completely. I dont have a degree and make a hell of a lot more then 100k\yr. Why dont I have a degree? I was not lucky enough to have rich parents and had to work from age 15+. I would be happy to go head to head with anyone on IQ. They would deserve higher wages once the company is making consistant profits. They have not given the compoany a chance yet. A degree is insignificant. Most people get them while completely blitzed out of thier mind for 4 years. You are an elitist. Plain and simple. If the people that make American cars were not who they were I would not want them. I thank god for Detroit and the workers they employ. The leadership is the problem.
03-23-2011, 11:10 AM
#30
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Re: UAW threatens Ford, wants concessions back
CEO's are overpaid. At practically every company. Compare their relative income to the average worker today versus 30-40 yr ago. It is many times higher, despite lower taxes for them. And they certainly aren't doing a better job today then they were back then. Especially the clowns in the financial sector.