Mr. Kerry's plans for Automobile World:

 

And the UAW gave their endorsement to him Wow, talk about losing jobs right and left.

 

You need to shut the hell up with that crap. I'll have you know that my good friend, Johnathon Lambert, died in Iraq. You wanna call his widow, or his mother and father and tell them he died for nothin at all? How about his 2-year old daughter?
.

 

As usual, people blow the CAFE average issue way out of proportion. First of all, it doesn't need to be raised if they just start calculating the "real world" fuel economy of cars instead of using the out dated testing method they use now. That testing method is why people with hybrids are so disappointed with their actual mileage. Not only that, but the numbers posted on your window sticker are NOT even the ones used to calculate averages for CAFE.

Regardless, the American auto industry is notorious for predicting doom and gloom any time something like this is suggested. It happened in the 70's to. They said everybody would be driving little cars with no horspower. Guess what, we did for a while, but look what we have now. A small block Chevy engine producing 400+ net horspower that can still get almost 30 mpg. Think we would have that engine today if the government hadn't incorporated CAFE. The simple answer: NO! You'd probably still be driving a car with a carburator because they are cheaper.

I work in the auto industry for a U.S. company and I have ABSOLUTELY no sympathy for GM, Ford or Chrysler. Their own arrogance got them into the position they are in today and it looks like it is only going to get worse. While they are complaining, b!tching and moaning, the Japanese and Europeans are quietly plodding along making their cars more powerful and fuel efficient by the day. There are already technologies on the market that can hit the numbers Kerry is talking about including full hybrids, mild hybrids (ISA's - Integrated Starter Alternators w/ 42 volts), clean diesels (once low sulfur fuel is available) and cylinder deactivation. This is not even taking into account that hydrogen powered fuel cells are expected to be viable in about 20 years. Mercedes is bringing back an E320 with a turbo diesel that will actually perform better than its gasoline counterpart and will meet the new diesel emissions standards once low sulfur diesel becomes available. As usual, the U.S. companies missed the boat, this time in Europe, because they ignored the trend. All the European and Japanese brands have common rail direct injection diesels over there that are clean, efficient and powerful but Ford and GM are busy buying diesels from their Japanese and European competitors because they missed the signs of the impeding swing to diesel power and now are scrambling to catch up. Mean while, their competition just keeps pulling further away.

Even the Bush administration sees the need for this. He just raised the CAFE average for light trucks starting in 2007.

I love my two high horspower gas sucking pig Camaro's like you wouldn't believe, but I would love them even more if they got 40 mpg.

As for the Kerry vs. Bush discussion, while I consider myself an independent, I will definitely be voting for Kerry. I consider all politicians to be liars and cheats, so I try to pick the candidate that will lie and cheat the least, which in this case I think is Kerry. Bush, his whole administration and especially that king of all criminals VP of his, Cheney have proven that if there is one thing they excel at, it is lying.

 

Friend, I feel your emotion and I feel sad for them, the soldiers believe what they're told, do what they're told, they personally die for what they believe in...but they are being mislead.

Are you, any of you reading current events(besides 5th Gen or Future cars)???
The news, that was on "Infowars.com" last week is now on CNN and NBC...talk of bad INTEL from Isreali intelligence, even accusations of them forcing us into a war with their long time enemy(Iraq) for their own purposes...Infact Isreali Prime minister Sharon, is being indicted and so is his son...
.........BOY'S READ SOME NEWS..(use some foreign sources too..UK etc)..........
Ignorance on this borad(beyond automotive) is staggering..
Thanx bro, comments like this are chipping away at the respect I was gaining for you..
I've seen catagorized, numbered Gov't documents backing up a LOT of what's on that sight...and I get rhetoric slapped in my face for believing things posted there... (BTW...I am very careful and senical about information, both ways..good & bad, and usually verify things with news sources "World Wide", we're NOT going to hear the WHOLE truth on our National Network Newstations...bought and paid for...you'll only get the "Pollitically Correct" point of view.)
Funny, you just described most of this nation too...Homeland Security has stripped our Constitutional Rights...RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR FACES...and finally people are waking up and abolishing it, town by town and city by city...

I'm not the "bad guy" I didn't make this stuff up...look for yourself if you dare....different sources....I DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.....

http://infowars.com/print/Secret_soc..._vid_kbsab.htm

 

Arnold Swartzenager(sp?)Governor of California claims they already have Hydrogen fueled cars on the road, and will have 10 filling stations by the end of the decade...

 

Just when I thought we had a safe place to go where we could get away from politics! It rears its ugly head. So hear goes. Everytime I hear people compare Iraq to Vietnam it makes me sick, its not even close. I mean how many did we lose in that war 60,000, I'm not sure. If I remember correctly more people died from Fords tire debacle than in Iraq, now those people died for nothing. Where is the outrage? Not to down play the deaths of any soldiers, but I do not feel the brave men & women who lost their lives in Iraq, died for nothing. And it was not for oil! They are all brave heros in my book! I believe those on the left are making the same mistakes we were making before 9-11-01, and that is failing to realize the threat to the free world that these people really are. The men and women over seas right now are doing a tremendous job that needs to be done. I didn't really take voting very seriously before 9-11-01., however on that day my wife was on her first business trip for her new job. There was a couple hours or so that I was uncertain if she was on one of those planes. Let me say they were maybe the longest 2 hours I have had to endure, and that is why I will be supporting Bush in Nov. , I think he has done a great job in fighting this war, and putting fear in the eyes of those who would like to put an end to our life while we are working. I do not like war, however I feel safer knowing that we are a country that will defend itself when we are attacked. And I do not think we should wait for another attack here. Thank god I did vote for Bush in 2000! And to that end let me also say, opinions are like you know what, everybody has one! Let the flames begin! I have blinders on Blah, Blah, Blah, I've heard it all before.

 

Agreed.

 

Can you tell me what Constitutional right I'm missing right now? I can't think of one either. In fact, my way of life hasn't changed a bit with Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. But then again, I'm not a terrorist. Please come up with something better to convince people we're in trouble. BTW, Clinton-Gore passed more "big brother" laws than any administration I know, including the Bush administration.

 

Anybody who thinks our troops died for nothing over there needs their head examined. That's my opinion and if you don't like you you are entitled to an opinion of your own.

Maybe the WMD's are in syria, maybe the were destroyed years ago. All the same, the people of Iraq are free from tyranny and oppression, that is far from "nothing" in my book.

I realize GuionM is an "independent", meaning he has no affiliation with any particular party. But independent and moderate are not the same thing. He's clearly pretty darn liberal in his views, though he chooses not to align himself with the Democratic party.

I love ya man for your contributions here, and think you are a smart guy, but that doesn't automatically mean me or anyone else necessarily has to respect your political opinions on an equal plane with your automotive ones.

As for Mr. Kerry...the guy is wayyyyyy left of reality. This is a guy who believes we should subordinate our national security to the will of the U.N., an organization that Saddam was in effect paying off with the corrupted oil for food program (along with France and Russia). John Kerry called his fellow Viet Vets baby killers and accused them of committing attrocities on a grand scale. Sure stuff happened but as a matter of policy acknowledged by superiors? Come on people.

Final thought, if this war was for oil...why is gas so expensive right now? I want to see pics of those tankers full of stolen iraqi oil on their way here if this was about oil. John Kerry in 1994 advocated a 50 cent increase in the federal gas tax.

Hey, they were wrong on WMDs apparently...just like Clinton was wrong about bombing that asprin factory. Bill Cohen, Clinton's Sec. of Defense said they could not do nothing and then later the US would be attacked and peope would say "why didn't you bomb that place?" They made the best decision they could at the time with the available intel....JUST LIKE IRAQ.

 

Dad always said....never mix friendship and money.....and don't get into a pissin' match about politics or religion, you'll both just end up getting pissed on.....

Take this stuff to the Lounge, I really doubt ANYONE's mind will be changed because of what it debated here.....I'm sick of reading it already.....

 

Lighten up Doug! If you 're that sick of it why read it and even moreso why post? Just ignore it and let the mods deal with it when it gets "out of hand."

Religion and Politics are two of my three favorite subjects....with the other one being pretty obvious considering what site we're on.

 

How about you're right to "Due Process"...under the Patriot Act, there's a very LIBERAL use of the term terrorist, you'd be surprised how things like "Going Out on Strike" would be considered "Domestic Terrorism"...for that you can be "deported", held indefinitely, and executed by a millitary tribunal...(Read the Patriot Acts...sickening..) Obsurd as it sounds, it's right there in Black & White"...
B/c now OPEC has total control, Sadam isn't selling oil behind their backs...And where do you think a large portion of that money is going?...
Why isn't it???
We are in another country where we're not welcome, not appreciated(except by a small minority, tho most of them end up on the News.), we're being killed on a daily basis, suicide bomings, NO Defined Enemy, so an army's kinda useless....need more??Just watched 60 Minutes with Dan Rather, where soldiers talked of a 10year old with an AK47, civilians tossing grenades, and many inocents kiled in the cross-fire and how they have trouble defining a "clear" and "just" cause they fought for....
Those people died for what they believed in , most definitely NOT for nothing...My point is THERE WAS NO THREAT!...We "Invaded" for NO GOOD REASON...
Should we Invade every country that we have a "HUNCH" they're a danger to us....Then we become WORSE than "what" we're fighting...A Tyranical world-wide "Bully"...you want that??.
Ross Pero(sp?) proved that a nationwide "gas tax" could PAY OFF the Natioal Debt in just a few years...sure it wouldn't be popular, but my kids wouldn't have to pay for all of that deficit spending we're doing now!...

Questions:
1) Why did it take NORAD over 30 MINUTES to respond and scramble fighter jets to investigate 9/11 "AIRCRAFT"???
2) Why was the officer in charge of NORAD opporations promoted to one of the highest offices in his field, instead of being COURTMARTIALED..!..??
3) Why did the flight that hit the Pentagon, fly 270* around the Pentagon and hit a side nearly opposite of Donald Rumsfeld office, where it's original flight path would've taken it???
4) Why were the FBI told to "stand down" when they investigated the training of the pilots responsible for 9/11???
5) How did we jump from "Osama Bi Ladin" to "Sadam Hussein" when it was clear Iraq had NO direct link to 9/11??
6)Why didn't the "anti-aircraft" weapons around the Pentagon, shoot down the "aircraft" before it reach its target??

**Negligence of these levels is nigh to TREASON!....

 

On a lighter side, Busch's Record on Manufacturing:
January 2001- November 2003
- They stood by as 2.6 MILLION! manufacturing jobs disappeared.(And remember, this is lost tax revenue too...how do we recover?)
-Waives "Buy American" laws, supports "Gutting" Buy American protections, and opposes expanding Buy American protections for U.S. defense purchases.
- Proposes eliminating ALL U.S. tarrifs on manufactured imports, ensuring the United States will lose the leverage to unfair trade practices and "workers right" violations abroad.
- Proposes expanding "Failed" NAFTA first to Central America, and then to the Western Hemosphere as part of the FTAA(Free Trade Area of the Americans)
-Refuses to challenge China on it's ILLEGAL manipulation of currency, putting U.S. manufacturers at a disadvantage of up to 40% !!
- Supports "tax changes" that would provide more incentive for shifting production and jobs abroad.(Not all tax breaks are for "us")
- Lifted tariffs on STEEL that had allowed the industry to regain its footing, leaving the industry in danger of shifting BACK to more lay-offs, bankruptcies and plant closures.
- Refuses to provide "relief" for several U.S. manufacturers hurt by the UNFAIR trade practices of foreign manufacturers.
- Pushed through a Medicare Bill with "MINIMAL" benefits and strong incentives for employers to drop retirees from health care coverages. The NEW Medicare Law even prevents the Gov't from negotiating for lower perscription drug costs.
-**Proposed a "Manufacturing Czar" to coordinate the administration's responses to the CRISIS on manufacturing- a weak response to a growing and SERIOUS problem...
(The Conveyor..UAW paper)
BTW: Texas LOST 149,200 manufacturing jobs from Jan.2001-Nov.2003...
(153,200 jobs in OHIO.. over 4,000 in my 'lil home town by one company alone...)

 

I'm one of those very few people who can keep politics & religion compartmentalized. Everyone has opinions on these, and no one should give out their opinion unless they're ready to listen to the opinions of others without letting things get out of hand. So, I'll explain myself a little more here, then get back to work.

Terms Liberal and Conservative is relative to where you are standing. In California, our governer, Arnold Schwarzenegger (who I'd vote for again in a heartbeat!) is considered conservative. But in Texas or quite a few other states, he'd be classified as Liberal. New York governer George Pataki and former New York mayor Rudi Gulliani were conservative for their area, but would be classified liberal elsewhere. Meanwhile a typical southern or midwest conservative wouldn't get elected dogcatcher in the northeast or the west, and vise versa holds true for western or northeast liberals.

My personal opinion is that anyone who throws the term "liberal" and "conservative" around is looking to divide people into "us" vs "them" instead of what's best for us. There really is no such thing as someone being conservative or liberal on everything. I can go down the line and point out things that so-called liberal and conservative politicians have done that betray that label.

I call myself independent because I have no problem splitting my vote. What's important to me in voting is what my priorities are and who the person is that's running.

You can call me liberal if you live in the deep south, or some places in Texas, or call me a conservative if you live in some places out west. If Republican senator John McCain, Republican former NY mayor Gulliani, or our own Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger ran for President, I'd vote for them. If Clinton was able to run again, I'd vote for him too.

Al Gore is an absolutely fantastic and extremely funny guy when you meet him away from the press & cameras, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable about him being president.

Jury's still out on Kerry.

I have very very grave questions about Bush's economic policy. I also think he's letting Cheney run him into the ground. While I also think we were more than justified for invading Iraq (remember, Hussein was a guy that defied the world and shot at our planes for years!), instead of being like his father in going in doing the job, and getting out, and letting the UN go in & set up a new government, we're sinking something like a billion $$$ per day doing something the UN should be paying for and doing themselves.

Kerry on the other hand, isn't perfect. But there is enough about him that's making me take a serious look. Anyone who has been in a war isn't going to send troops off to war on a whim (Teddy Roosevelt won a Nobel Peace prize, Kennedy ignored calls to invade Cuba, possibly averting a nuclear war, George Bush I exhausted all diplomatic avenues before we went into dessert storm, and John McCain by the standards of most so called "conservatives" isn't exactly a "blow 'em up" Republican).

But I think someone who: opposes tax increases or tax cuts that favor millonaires, doesn't give a crap what you do behind closed doors as long as you don't feel the need to rub my face with it, doesn't view moving jobs overseas as "good for the economy", thinks the government should never ever spend more than what it takes in, doesn't care about your nationality as long as you're hard working and honest, believes in helping those that can't help themselves, feels government shouldn't legislate anything that interferes with the indivual, and would have MOST DEFINATELY used nuclear weapons against Al Queda when we knew where they were in Afghanistan, and when finished there, would probally have no problems getting Iraq to let inspectors in (saving countless billions of US dollars & pretty much forcing other mid-east countries to rein in terrorists), can not exactly be labeled a "Liberal".

A Jeffersonian Libertarian bully, a moderate Republican, a Democrat that would never make it through their Presidential primaries, or a crazy who should never be allowed into elective office, maybe.

Liberal?

Naaa.