BLUETOPTA

Is the fact that GM will not let any of their vehicles be in comparision of HP and speed of their #1 Gun Corvette..... That is what is killing all of their awsome concept cars. In a way I think that is why the Fbody is dead: 2003 cobra=390 hp
-In order for an Fbody to beat this it would be faster than the Vette.....NO WAY!

If something or someone would light a FIRE under GM's A** and get the vette into true SUPERCAR status, at least 450+ hp then some of these new cars could come true..... because if they keep up whats going on and dont get the vettes HP up then the rest of their cars wont compeat.....

Just my .02




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BLUETOPTA

1995 Trans Am covnvertible. LT1, A4, White w/white leater + blue top and accents
-ported&poiished heads&intake, 11:2:1 compresion, 1:6 rr,lt4 springs, SLP headers,CSI h20,52mm TB, ported maf, built trans,3:73,LCA,v6 springs, BFG dr's, other boltons....... STOCK CAM

-98 grand prix GT

DamianLT1

I couldn't agree with you more. There will be no 5th Gen till this happens. Unless GM make it so it could be modded cheaply to smack a Ford. The Vette need to get into the Viper range. A 400 RWHP Vette.

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95 Formula M6, Cags, SLP shifter, Grant SFC,Hooker Catback.

luis nunez

Good point!


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1995 Red Z28
98 Z28 Wheels
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SNEAKY NEIL

It is a good point, BUT you have to remember that Chevy will not let a Mustang be faster than a Vette. That said, we all know the Camaro gets the "Vette" engine which is supposed to be detuned, but not really. The Vette will still always be faster because it is lighter and more aerodynamic. The illusion is all in the hp ratings. As long as the Camaro is rated a little lower, then it will be fine.

lock down

GM could make a 500hp na vett and then tune down the maro to lets say 499hp na

Darth Xed

Well.... Why shouldn't the Corvette be the fastest GM car???

DamianLT1

I'm sure the Vette yields a higher profit marging. GM drop the ball with the Fbodies. They got lazy and stupid.

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95 Formula M6, Cags, SLP shifter, Grant SFC,Hooker Catback.

GN1270

I really think if there is a fifth generation alot of people are going to be dissapointed.Its all fine and good to keep bumping up horsepower, but insurance companies are going to rape you. You notice how lame the GT's hp still is?? It will problably say that way. The lst thing GM wants are 18 year old kids with 450hp cars on the street. I think the new SS model will be fast, but like the Cobra will be priced out of teenagers range (assuming most teenagers can't affors 34 to $40k cars)

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87 Grand National, 9 sec street car

2002 NBM WS.6 A4

ckt101

I couldn't DISAGREE more. In my opinion, the death of the camaro had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it's horsepower is lower than the current vette, or the 2003 mustang cobra. From 1993 to 2002 the camaro and firebird were undisputed performance champions in their class, and yet still were discontinued. Another 100 hp wouldn't have saved them.
Also, the current base and z06 corvettes are the greatest corvettes of all time. If you want supercar performance, you'll get supercar price, and then how many people will buy corvettes? The current corvette gives you 95% of viper performance, for tens of thousands less.
One more thing, the corvette is GM's performance flagship, get used to it. How happy would camaro owners feel if gm put out a grand am with higher horsepower?

ReznorZ28

I dont think he meant to make a camaro faster than a vette. I think he was saying to make the new camaro's as fast as the current vettes and make the new vette's even faster. So that the camaro is faster than the cobra and that the vette is faster than a viper... a big ole snake eating family.

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My 2 Babies:
94 black Z28-5.7 k&n cold air induction, performance MAF,air foil & flowmaster exhast. new pics w/ SS hood & spoiler. Custom hvac&light covers and custom storage bin covers for sale
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86 laser red IrocZ - k&n air filters,full msd setup, flowmasters, modifed MAS & air foil,92 hood, Ground Effects & spoiler
86 Z28

guionM

Urban Legend alert!!!

Many GM Cars actually had the same or higher horsepower numbers than same year Corvettes!

A short list: TransAm T/A 6.6 of 1977-1979; Buick Grand National, Buick Grand National GNX, Cyclone, Typhoon, 1989 Turbo Trans Am(Car&Driver June 1989: 0-60 in 4.6 seconds/ Road&Track January 1989 0-60 in 5.3/ Z51 L98 Vette R&T magazine 6.2 0-60), and most recently Camaro SS's 345 horsepower (that 15 horsepower spread between it and the Corvette doesn't exist).

The GNX, Typhoon, the 89 Turbo T/A and Cyclone (all Automatics) were more than capable of outrunning automatic Corvettes, matching the manual Corvettes, and in the instance of the 1989 Automatic transmissioned Turbo Trans Am, outrun manual Corvettes till at least the end of the quarter mile!

The 1978-79 T/A 6.6 TransAms had the same horsepower as Corvettes, but had more torque & near identical weight. The quarter mile between those 2 boiled down to who was a better shifter.

Also

guionM

Two wrong areas here:

First,
Mustang insurence (along with same year Integras & Turbo Eclipses) have a slightly higher insurence rates than same year Z28s. I mentioned this in another thread, so I'll do the same here. Camaro's average buyer's age is over 40, while Mustang's is about 32. Mustang (and the other cars I mentioned) are owned by younger and more experienced drivers, therefore have more claims. Just so you don't think this is an odd case, the 1994 230 horsepower Thunderbird SC had lower insurence than the 215 horsepower Mustang GT. The T-bird was within .2 seconds to 60 mph, had a higher top speed than GT OR Cobra, had more torque than either car, was only 10 hp off of the Cobra, cost alot more, yet.....had lower insurence!!!

Second,
If you think Mustang GTs are slow, think again: http://members.tripod.com/~Camaro33/camarovsmustang.htm It's off only .3 of a second to 60 compared to an LS1 Z28 (roughly the time it would take you to blink your eye....try it!) so a good GT driver with a good launch (easier said than done) can beat you!

We still have them in top speed by a horrendous margin though.

guionM

Meant to say younger and LESS experienced drivers. Proofreading button didn't work.

Bearcat Steve

Sorry, BLUETOPTA, but you missed it completely. Corvette has NOTHING to do with the f-body hiatus.

Know what percent of the driving public who can afford a car that is $30k list care about top horsepower, quarter miles, etc? Answer: Almost none! Why do you think that SUV's, 4 cylinder's, and pick up trucks sell well? The answer lies in the fact that the vast majority of car buyers have priorites that often take precedence over raw power.

I would be willing to bet that if GM made a 600 hp f-body, it would sell less than the current car because too many people would be afraid to drive it.

Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT GM's purpose in life to build fast cars. Their primary job like that of ALL publicly owned companies is to maximize the wealth of their stockholders -- period.

Don't think that I wouldn't want an f-body that run's 11's right from the factory -- I would! But there aren't enough people with a warped brain like mine and others here to make a good business case for GM. They have to sell a whole bunch of V6's in order to build a smaller number of fire breathing V8's.

Sorry, but that is just the way it is....

GN1270

Juion..i agree with todays version of the f-body, now put in the 03 Cobra and do the rates, then imagine what a car with 50 more hp will be. I'm not talking current rates, i'm talking future rates, and of course insurance companies don't necessarily go by average age. I'm sure everyone here is talking about an affordable 400+hp version, which would mean affordable to teenagers. I just think the affordable versions would problably still have the LS1 or comparable HP. You can go hog wild with hp #'s on special edition or limited production cars because there will always be some enthusiasts with deep pockets, but i dobt we'll ever see a $25k 400hp f-body, maybe a limited edition SS for $40k.

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87 Grand National, 9 sec street car

2002 NBM WS.6 A4

[This message has been edited by GN1270 (edited September 12, 2002).]