montytrmpt

I just saw this article, it was front-page on Yahoo for a while.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...n_N.htm?csp=34

Just the first paragraph...

I'm not sure how much it is raising the stakes if GM unveiled the Volt 7 months ago.

The modified Prius plug in goes 8 miles to a charge with a trunk-full of batteries. Not that impressive, but if the Volt had to use current battery technology, I'm not sure it would do much better.

jg95z28

"Raising the stakes"? More like, "reacting to hobbists websites that already show Prius owners how to make the conversion to their existing vehicles".

Our local power company (Pacific Gas and Electric) even did their own plug-in conversion and have been showing it off across the state.
http://www.pge.com/news/news_release...06/060901.html

They and others have been pressing for plug-in hybrids for quite a while.

skorpion317

Volt > Prius.

TedH

Deopending on the cost of delivered electricity, some areas may be less expensive with a non-plug in model.

This is simply a demand generated thing.

On another note, I expect delivery of my new electric car very soon... It is supposed to go up to 40 miles on a charge and have over 300 horsepower...

More details after I get the final paperwork returned to me with the proper signatures...

Plague

This your car?

http://www.venturi.fr/-venturi-english-home-.html

I would prefer this one

http://www.teslamotors.com/
Not sure tesla is shipping yet

Oh, and this is not big news. Maybe to all the Toyota supporters, but 8 miles is no where near what it needs to be for production. Although, I don't know when the Volt will be production, or the numbers that it will have either.

jg95z28

I'm not sure what Toyota is doing, but PG&E got far better numbers with their PHEV Prius conversion.

montytrmpt

What type of battery was PG&E using?

I'm thinking Toyota is less interested in the mileage at this point and more in the electric interface/conversion what-not of the guinea-pig Prius. They appear to be banking on the Li-ion stuff, and don't seem too interested in the battery technology in this run.

Personally, at this stage, I think the Volt is a much better system. I'm no engineer, but the volt seems much less complex. On this Prius, you've got the complexity of the regular prius + the new electric charge stuff.

jg95z28

I'm not sure, but CalCars has managed 30-miles with lithium ion batteries.

http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html

Threxx

Can someone make a rough guess as to what the cost of electricity would be to charge up a 30-mile car like the volt will supposedly be from empty to full charge? Or at least this 8 mile Prius?

I suppose just using the national average cost of electricity or a typical number of any sort.

Another question - if the car is running on electric motor only, would you need to baby it to get 30 miles? In other words, obviously the faster you went the more wind resistance and so on, but I guess what I mean is would I have to creep away from stop lights, or do electric motors behave differently then gas motors and don't actually lose much if anything in the way of efficiency when they're opened up hard?

Caps94ZODG

so where was the Volt..raising the bar?? or in fact it is far over it..someone should shove that article right up that roperters behind..

Threxx

I suppose maybe people believe Toyota more than they do GM? GM has, so far, only shown us a concept car. They pretty much have nothing in the way of viable hybrid vehicles on the market today. The Prius is pretty much king of the hybrid market. So I guess when GM released the volt prototype the press saw it as "me too... well, sometime here in the next year or two, hopefully"

When the press sees a new Prius everybody gets excited because the Prius is already a proven vehicle - out on the streets for several years now - and this appears to be an improved version of what we've already seen plenty of.

I guess it just seems more real.

If the Volt lives up to the 30 mile range expectations and is out for the 2009 model year then I'll be blown away - and in a surprised, but good way. I may even consider getting one depending on how I like it...

Z28x

Volt is supposed to go 40mile on just the charge. We would need to know how many KWh are used in a charge to guess the price. Based on what the Tesla cost to charge I'm guessing the Volt would be under a $1 to go that first 40 miles.

TedH

[QUOTE=Plague;4760309]This your car?

http://www.venturi.fr/-venturi-english-home-.html

I would prefer this one

http://www.teslamotors.com/
Not sure tesla is shipping yet
QUOTE]

Nope... My wife said we needed something more fuel efficient and practical, so she "threatened" to buy a Prius... I figured I'd find something that got better mileage than that.



I have not yet physically seen the vehicle.

Here are the only specifications that I have:

Performance Highlights and Specifications
Max. Horsepower: approx. 300 (430 - 500*) HP
Max. Torque: approx. 400 (600 - 660*) ft-lb
Weight: approx. 5000 lb
Length: 16 ft
Width: 6 ft 2 in
Height: 42 in
Ground Clearance: 5 in
Acceleration, 0 - 60 mph: 7 - 9 sec (5 - 7 sec*)
Acceleration, 1/4 mile: 14 - 16 sec
Acceleration, 1/4 mile top speed: approx. 97 mph
Top Speed: approx. 140 - 160 mph (about 100 mph in 3rd gear)
Gas Mileage Equivalent**: 60 - 100 mpg (about 3-5 cent/mi)
Range: 100 - 140 miles per charge
Recharge time: approx. 6 hrs.
Clutch: Centerforce double sprung
Transmission: Camaro high performance 6 speed
Regenerative Breaking System: 10 KW
Body: Composite rigid foam and fiberglass
windshield: 1/4" Lexan
Batteries: 40 8V deep cycle Trojan

* specification with new Zilla 2000 amp water cooled controller, original
specifications based on DC Power 1200 amp controller. Range specified based
on 160 - 180 V battery voltage.
**based on $3.00 per gallon gasoline and $0.15 per KWh

montytrmpt

I think you're right on this. If the Volt and the Plug-in Prius came out at the same time, I'm afraid the Prius might do better in sales. I say that ONLY because they are using the Prius as a platform for their plug-in. Name recognition seems to mean a lot in the industry (ex: Ford 500 -> Taurus), and the credentials of Toyota AND the Prius might overshadow what is likely to be a much better plug-in, the Volt.

Now, if Toyota made a whole new model of car for their plug-in, like GM is doing, it would be a lot more even competition.

But then, I'm speculating and don't know the first thing about marketing a car.

TedH

I believe Prius will become another "brand", like Scion... I think that type of move will be very beneficial to Toyota in terms of establishing credibility for their hybrid technology to demographics that have thusfar avoided the technology.