toyotas new fuel cell hybrid
06-06-2008, 10:27 AM
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toyotas new fuel cell hybrid
TOKYO (AP) - Toyota has developed a new fuel cell hybrid, a green car powered by hydrogen and electricity, that can travel more than twice the distance of its predecessor model without filling up.
The improved model's maximum cruising range is 516 miles compared with 205 miles for Toyota's previous fuel cell model.
The FCHV-adv model received Japanese government approval earlier this week. It will be available for leasing in Japan later this year. Pricing and other details weren't available, and overseas plans were still undecided.
Fuel cell vehicles produce no pollution by running on the power of the chemical reaction when hydrogen stored in a tank combines with oxygen in the air to produce water.
The FCHV-adv from the world's second biggest automaker also comes with an electric motor and works as a hybrid by switching between that motor and the hydrogen-powered fuel cell.
Toyota's Prius hybrid switches between an electric motor and a standard gasoline engine.
The improved model's maximum cruising range is 516 miles compared with 205 miles for Toyota's previous fuel cell model.
The FCHV-adv model received Japanese government approval earlier this week. It will be available for leasing in Japan later this year. Pricing and other details weren't available, and overseas plans were still undecided.
Fuel cell vehicles produce no pollution by running on the power of the chemical reaction when hydrogen stored in a tank combines with oxygen in the air to produce water.
The FCHV-adv from the world's second biggest automaker also comes with an electric motor and works as a hybrid by switching between that motor and the hydrogen-powered fuel cell.
Toyota's Prius hybrid switches between an electric motor and a standard gasoline engine.
i hate toyota but im big advocate of fuel cell technology. if they start getting fueling stations and stuff going and gm doesn't get in gear i would jump ship and buy a toyota.
06-06-2008, 10:34 AM
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It says they're leasing in Japan this year. Do they have hydrogen stations in Japan? I'm all for it, but I wonder how long it would take for us to get hydrogen stations up instead of gas stations (and who would produce it?)
06-06-2008, 10:47 AM
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06-06-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fox23News
The FCHV-adv from the world's second biggest automaker also comes with an electric motor and works as a hybrid by switching between that motor and the hydrogen-powered fuel cell.
Oh wait. It only has one. Its fox 23 news. That station is a joke and they as usual dont know what they're talking about.
However, 516 miles is *NOT* a joke. I wonder what the lease rates will be for this thing?
06-06-2008, 11:32 AM
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Isn't it costing Honda some $100,000 per vehicle for the fuel cell with the car they're leasing in California? I wonder how much cheaper fuel cells could be made with a higher volume (millions per year)?
The good thing about hydrogen is it can be made using electricity from a variety of sources. It's not as efficient as storing electricity in batteries, but if you can drive 500 miles per fill up it sounds like a good deal.
The good thing about hydrogen is it can be made using electricity from a variety of sources. It's not as efficient as storing electricity in batteries, but if you can drive 500 miles per fill up it sounds like a good deal.
06-06-2008, 11:48 AM
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But to put things in perspective - if you used gasoline, cracked it to get all the usable hydrogen out of it - and then used that to power the car via an electric fuel cell - you'd get more usable energy out of the gasoline than the modern internal combustion engine does.
And while getting hydrogen compressed or liquified is obnoxious - by mass its energy density is incredible - and beyond batteries. By volume, thats another story
06-06-2008, 12:03 PM
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Well, pulling hydrogen out of water with electricity is terribly inefficient - we'd need huge numbers of nuclear plants to do it.
But to put things in perspective - if you used gasoline, cracked it to get all the usable hydrogen out of it - and then used that to power the car via an electric fuel cell - you'd get more usable energy out of the gasoline than the modern internal combustion engine does.
And while getting hydrogen compressed or liquified is obnoxious - by mass its energy density is incredible - and beyond batteries. By volume, thats another story
But to put things in perspective - if you used gasoline, cracked it to get all the usable hydrogen out of it - and then used that to power the car via an electric fuel cell - you'd get more usable energy out of the gasoline than the modern internal combustion engine does.
And while getting hydrogen compressed or liquified is obnoxious - by mass its energy density is incredible - and beyond batteries. By volume, thats another story
06-06-2008, 01:39 PM
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At current electricity prices, hydrogen is $2-5 per kilogram. The Honda Clarity claims a fuel economy of 68 miles per kg of H2. That's rather attractive.
Unfortunately, fuel cells are not yet ready for mass-market consumption, and there's really not a clear path to bringing down the cost at this point.
Unfortunately, fuel cells are not yet ready for mass-market consumption, and there's really not a clear path to bringing down the cost at this point.
06-06-2008, 07:35 PM
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At current electricity prices, hydrogen is $2-5 per kilogram. The Honda Clarity claims a fuel economy of 68 miles per kg of H2. That's rather attractive.
Unfortunately, fuel cells are not yet ready for mass-market consumption, and there's really not a clear path to bringing down the cost at this point.
Unfortunately, fuel cells are not yet ready for mass-market consumption, and there's really not a clear path to bringing down the cost at this point.
06-06-2008, 08:12 PM
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not every one had digital antenas and goverment mandated it and sent out coupons and now in feb in 2009 every one will have .
so if it became viable im sure the government would push gas stations to put pumps in. right now most gas stations you go to rent/rent to own there pumps any way.
06-06-2008, 09:16 PM
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we didnt for e85 either but thats poping up like crazy.
not every one had digital antenas and goverment mandated it and sent out coupons and now in feb in 2009 every one will have .
so if it became viable im sure the government would push gas stations to put pumps in. right now most gas stations you go to rent/rent to own there pumps any way.
not every one had digital antenas and goverment mandated it and sent out coupons and now in feb in 2009 every one will have .
so if it became viable im sure the government would push gas stations to put pumps in. right now most gas stations you go to rent/rent to own there pumps any way.
06-06-2008, 10:02 PM
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The fuel cell theoretically has a long life, if it's not "poisoned" by contamination (they're supposedly damn sensitive to anything that's not pure air and hydrogen). There is also some pretty wild supporting equipment required to supply pressurized fresh air to the cell, and to circulate the coolant.