I am wondering this...because it seems they are loosing touch with what people want....especially young people. Cars liek the Echo have been sales disapointments and attracted much older buyers than they want. Their most recent redesigns have been questionable at best...especially the Camry and 4Runner. The Camry alone...is arguably falling behind the Altima, Mazda6 and Accord in it's class and is only a year old. They have also become big on another GM issue....model differention. For instance...the Corrolla, Matrix, RAV4, and Celica are all based on the same basic platform....which I think is way too many varients for just within the Toyota brand. Also they have become bad about parts bin raiding....seems the same steering wheel that is in the Celica is in every new car they make....They are even using it in Lexus's with just an L instead of a T in the middle. Thats kinda tacky for a luxury brand. Scion is horrible and will die a firey death IMO. I am in thier target audience for the brand...and wouldn't be caught dead in one. Anyone have anything else to add?

 

Toyota Doesn't make one car that I would buy (except the Lexus IS300) Toyota branded cars are more boring looking than Buicks.

 

I couldn't care less about Toyota. I wouldn't care if they went out of business. Negative mode off!

They have a solid lineup and are attacking the bread and butter of the current North American vehicle sales, trucks and SUV's. The Tundra is for real and stacks up very favorably against the domestic iron. Slowly they are making inroads into this market. The last real uncontested market that the Japanese carmakers havent tapped into. The selling point for Toyota is quality and solid dependable engineering. They don't wow anyone with their styling but they make solid dependable cars that have top quality and fit'n'finish. Simple but useful ergonomics have made them the envy of many makes doemstic and foreign. They are a lean producer and their continious improvement makes them hard to beat.

Working at GM, Toyota and Honda were always the top tested foreign makes for comparison. They set the benchmark for quality and the domestic brands are only now making solid gains in this area. Toyota has been sticking to their philosophy and now after decades of doing it the market has come to them. They never followed and now find themselves leading. This is why they have grown their market share every year over the past two decades.

On the flip side Toyota like any brand has had to make concessions to the American economy. Those concessions have forced Toyota to build cars here and thus loose a bit of their quality control. Also dealing with home turf and hard competitors like the big 3 has caused them to attack markets ne at a time, compact cars, midsize sedans, small SUV's, pick-ups..etc. Still quality and dependability have become srong values to the American consumer and those traits live in all Toyota vehicles. So expect them to continue to sell as long as those values are deemed important.

 

I don't know what you mean when you said that Camry is falling behind... It still ranks #1 for best overall car and its quality is higher than that of Honda, not to mention Altima or Mazda6.

While the design is hideous, you still have to admit that it is the number one choice for people in their 40's.

 

They sold more cars then Chevy last year and will probably surpass the Ford brand (not the corporation) this year since Ford is doing production cuts. They sell and have a good following. I love the new Camry, the Celica is alright, the Matrix isn't my cup of tea, the Mr2 is too girly, the Tundra and Tacoma are alright, and i'm not too fond of any other Suv, or car in their lineup. You and I may not be big fans of any of these cars, but the public seems to buy into them.

 

I still don't see Tundra or Nissan Titan making huge splashes here. American pickup truck buyers are some of the most fiercly brand and American-loyal vehicle buyers on the planet. Try to get a die-hard Ford F-x50 buyer, who's only bought Ford trucks his whole life, into a Nissan. I just don't see it happening.

It isn't that these trucks aren't worthy of consideration, from everything I've read about them it seems Japan is finally building a decent pickup. Then again, I'd probably shoot myself if I had to buy an SUV as butt-ugly as Highlander.

 

THANK HEAVENS!!!

PS - Same goes for most C/K-series owners I know too.

 

That’s so true. I think that American truck buyers are so loyal that they pass it on in their family. I know my great grandfather had an old Ford truck back in the day. My grand father is on his forth f-series and my dad is on his 2nd. I know I'm a die hard GM car guy but I think the Ford Trucks have rubbed off on me too. I love taking my dads huge V10 F250 4x4 out. Fun truck! I've said it once and I'll say it again the only people Nissan truck really appeal to are girls. And how many girls actually want trucks? Not too many.

 

I think you're making a mistake underestimating the appeal of Nissan and Toyota trucks. Sure, they're not going to take over the market this decade, but they know that. Rome was not built in a day.

They're starting out with modest goals and building smallish plants so as to not produce more than they can sell and then have to cheapen the brand with discounts. It's not hard to imagine Nissan taking 100,000 units out of a 2,000,000 + sized market. Dodge was able to triple their sales in the mid-90s and they had to overcome horrible image problems from their outgoing model.

Brand loyalty is not as strong as you think. Sure there's some die-hards, but they are just the vocal minority. Plenty of people are willing to try out the latest new thing or to switch to something different.

Remember that people said similar things about the luxury car market, and now Lexus is the sales leader barely 10 years after entering it (even though the majority of their sales come from sub-$40,000 vehicles). At the very least, the imports will put pricing pressure on the domestics and cause negative effects on their bottom lines.

 

On the truck discussion...

The Tundra hasn't even made a dent into Ford or Chevy or even Dodge....

Quality? Go read some of the Tundra message boards and ask about ENGINE problems with Tundra V8's... you might be surprised. Also, I can't speak for the Tundra specifically, but a friend of mine recently traded his 2002 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 in for a 2003 GMC 1500 Z-71 4x4 because of quality problems with his Toyota!!!

Comparable? Haha.... Maybe the Nissan will make inroads here, but the Toyota has the weakest V8 in the class and the smallest interior in the class.... It's also sub-par on tow ratings, etc.

As for the Nissan, price is going to kill it... All of the extra "features" they're putting on the Titan are things GM, Ford and Dodge have left off simply for cost reasons... Whereas you can go into a Chevrolet dealer right now and without even asking get $5,000 off the MSRP.... I don't think Nissan is going to have that kind of room to play with the price due to production costs.... Ford, GM and Dodge will all outsell Toyota and Nissan in the full-size market for the forseeable future. IMO.

Also, FYI, GM is putting out their 1500 Hybrid truck next year for the commercial truck market & for 2005 to consumers.... Should make their trucks even more appealing in the age of high gas prices.

-Michael

 

The Echo is doing well in the Bay Area, and I see the Matrix pretty much everywhere (it is assembled in the Bay Area). Camary is still doing very well in sales. Celica's sales have never equaled Camaro, but since they are based off another chassis in production, they don't need to.

I'm going to make a prediction that the Scion brand will fail miserably judging by the reception it had in Los Angeles & San Francisco (2 markets it should do well in, if it does well anywhere).

Toyota isn't doing too bad at the moment, though I think they have lost their pulse compared to the 1980s. Seems people buy them now more because of percieved quality than any real thrill. So in a way, Brandens dead on here. Nissans on the other hand have become a bunch of little hot rods (right down to it's family sedans), Mazda is going towards the race car look, Mitsubishi is going back to exciting (though somewhat ugly IMHO) cars. By comparison, the addition of superchargers to the Impala & Monte Carlo, along with the Corvette make Chevrolet a way more exciting place to be than the Toyota dealer's showroom.

If it wasn't for Lexus' G35 coupe & sedans, there wouldn't be anything there worth looking at beyond basic transportation.

 

As if the cars aren't ugly enough, I don't even know how you pronounce "Scion".

 

Folks most of you are talking about the hear and now as far as truck sales. How long has Chevy/Ford/Dodge been making trucks??

You must remember back to the early 70's when Toyota didn't have the Camry and the Corolla had sales more like a kit car. But slowly they picked up sales and they kept customers buying more and those customers told their friends about how different and good these Japanese cars were. The Camry being the best selling car in America didn't happen ovenight, and neither will the truck sales. But let me tell you that Toyota certainly now has much more going for it than it did in 1968. The same reason why people buy Camry and Corolla's today is the same reason why those poeple would buy a Tundra. They have a national following and you can be certain the Tundra will catch on.

Expect Nissan to do the same. Take a look at the sales 10 years from now and I bet you'll see both these trucks doing just fine, maybe not F150 sales but certainly more share of the pie than they have now!

 

Yes but you also need to remember another HUGE reason why Japanese appliances errrr cars caught on. American quality in the 70's and 80's took a serious nosedive. People decided to try something different because the masses knew the Big Three weren't getting it done on the quality end. I haven't heard many of these complaints from Ford and Chevy guys about how their trucks aren't built tough and that maybe they should look elsewhere. I think you underestimate how hard-headed an American pickup buyer is. Those other people who went to Honda and Toyota dealers for cars were simply looking for a quality car to get them from A to B and were never terribly brand loyal to begin with. It seems in the truck community, once you're a Ford guy or a Chevy guy or a Ram guy, that doesn't change. It's taken very seriously.

 

Z28Wilson, your looking at current truck buyers, yes very brand loyal, and they will continue to be so. There are a few who venture out to the foreign trucks because of poor experiences with domestic makes, but thats neither here nor there. However those buyers arn't the ones Toyota and Nissan are looking at. They plan to sell trucks to first time buyers or those who currently drive a Camry, Corolla, or even a 350Z. Just like Chevy, Ford, and Dodge sell trucks to current Malibu, Taurus, and Intrepid owners. Repeat buyers is a top selling feature, if it worked right once why not try it again. The market gets bigger every year and the room for sales gains is always possible