Just some Torana stuff I've dug up.

Motor: I guess this thing is for real. Although I can't see any turbos, plumbing or intercoolers on the concept...I'll take their word for it. It's been reported that mules are running around Australia with pre-production versions of this 375 horse turbo motor. Holden intends to put it into production, on the next gen Commodore/Monaro to counter Ford Falcon's turbo six option. Remember the Velite's motor? Remember awhile back when I started the Grand National thread? Hmmmm........

Interior: The thing that is remarkable here, is that the Torana is the size of a 3 series BMW...yet it's interior is the size of a larger 5 series. How'd they do that?

Chassis: Much like Kappa...Torana's chassis borrows lots of proven and certified components from the GM parts bin. Kappa forged aluminum control arms and knuckles, Sigma driveline parts, some others I'm not sure of. Holden claims that the Torana's chassis could be very quickly developed...if given the go ahead.

Intent: Torana is just a concept. Torana could possibly be built. But it seems that what Holden really wants to do, is showcase this new medium sized architecture for GM's global portfolio. Holden knows that chances are slim this car would be built in Australia. But they'd like to license it's production to other divisions. It would be built in NA or perhaps Asia...or even both. Cars the size of Commodore/Monaro have a very slim market in Europe and Asia. They are just too big. Epsilon is about the right size, but is FWD. Caddy wants a 3 series sized RWD car for Europe and China. The CTS is 5 series sized....too big for this particular segment. Right now, GM is considering which global GM brands could use a 3 series/SN95 Mustang/G35 coupe sized RWD car.

Bob Lutz is on record supporting this architecture as well. I expect some sort of announcement by this show season.

 

Hopefully not Chevrolet, because that's too little for a certain famous Chevy coupe with alot of presence.

The previous M*stangs were 183.2" and the new ones actually have increased dimensions. To me the 5th Gen can be no less than about 185.5" because anything less is borderline tiny for a car like the Camaro. Too high also.

 

so we gotta watch GM and Ford battle it out over seas? at least we know whatever car we get, its gonna have that much more research behind it. and for the company that needs a good RWD is SAAB. it will be the best move they ever made. they are already like an upperclass car (wide, convertible, nice looking) so why not take some of that BMW market share. if they give Saab the chance, they'll make it worth their while.

 

Torana would make a great Pontiac. GM NA needs a small RWD Sedan. I'm sick of all the US RWD sedans being 3800lbs.+ big cars.

 

The new architecture is right there.

 

One more thing that I forgot.

The Torana concept cost the usual penny pinching Holden $3.5M and 18 months to create.

That's alot of money and time for Holden to throw at a concept. Holden spent $30M to design and put into production the Monaro.....for comparison.

It looks like they spent alot of the money evaluating which GM platform could be best used for a car this size. They tried Zeta, then Sigma, then Kappa.....until they settled for this "new" one, using lots of parts from other architectures.

 

They must have finally noticed Nissan's FM platform.


1. Actually, the current 5-series is just about as wide as the current Commodore.

2. It looks as if the CTS is actually too small (or is that too poorly packaged) for the 5-series segment.

3. The Torana appeals to be 5-inches longer than the 2006 3-series. BMW decide to make the 2006 wider than a CTS, but only 2 inches longer than the current car.

 

In the US the CTS is a 3 series competitor that is the same size as a 5 series.

That strategy just won't fly outside NA...where a CTS-sized car is considered very large. There are some within GM that feel Americans will not pay higher end money for a car smaller than a CTS...thinking, which I believe is flawed.

Why?

Look at upscale cars in that segment. MB C-class, BMW 3 series, Audi A4....their biggest and most important market is the US. Yes Virginia...these are Americans shelling out the bucks for these cars.

 

$3.5M or $3.5B???

3 and a half million is damn cheap.

 

For one car?

 

It doesn't work very well in California either. I have friends that think the CTS is nice, but too big. The 3 series size is just right. If they want to badge it as a Saab or a Pontiac, because Caddys are supposed to be big, I don't care. But then I don't get hung up on names or brands. I do get hung up on RWD and good power

 

Yeah, GM doesn't get smaller than full sized (not small...the upcoming A3 will be a premium small car), premium cars. As far as I can remember, the only time GM gave it a shot was when they put a leather interior into the Cavalier and called it Cimarron. Somehow, that didn't quite hit the mark....and they've been saying "I told you so", ever since.

 

Clueless.

Not as clueless as Ford with their Lincoln 6, but still pretty clueless.

Do they still think that way? Do they think that a rebadged Impala would be any more successful as a Cadillac?

 

Not so much rebadging Impala's to be Caddy's.
What some people have resistance to at GM is premium cars smaller than CTS.

You know, as GM takes Saturn more upscale, I can see them getting a Torana type product. Maybe with not the full 376 hp twin turbo 3.6...maybe with the HF 2.8...or the turbo 2.8 that Saab is developing. Maybe even a turbo Ecotec.

A Pontiac version of this car is fine....but where would you slot it? That is, with G6 and Grand Prix and their GXP versions. Chevy...on the other hand has NOTHING in this segment. Personally....and maybe this doesn't completely "fit" marketing-wise (so what!)...I'd like to see Chevy with one.

Other than SSR or C6.....there is really no reason for anyone who likes cars to walk into a Chevy dealer. How about something fun and interesting for Chevy.....under $30K, (way under). Please, no old names here. Find a new name for this new, image changing Chevy. Hey, maybe even Chevy Torana. It could be the RWD Chevy answer to the Pontiac G6/G6 GXP, Mazda6/MazdaSpeed6, SVT Fusion, Altima, Acura TSX. BTW, this Chevy "sports sedan" will need 280 hp or more and a manual trans to play here.

What's wrong with Chevy getting some nice, fun cars? Nothing ! That's what!
Hey, I'd buy one.

 

I don't care if it's a Chevy or a Pontiac or a Saturn.

I think the HF 2.8 is too small to compete. In the CTS, it has no gas mileage advantage, but it has a 45hp disadvantage. It gives Cadillac a price point and allows them to charge more for the 3.6, ala 525i and C240. However, Acura and Infiniti don't play those games (no such thing as a TL3.0 or G30).

A RWD car should take full advantage of RWD by having an option that puts out more power than a FWD car could.