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Think G8 is dead?....... Think again.

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Old 04-28-2009, 11:23 AM
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Think G8 is dead?....... Think again.

Although I'm sure Josh and I talk to different people, we've been saying even before word leaked out that GM was killing Pontiac (which almost certainly has been in the works for way longer than just the last few months), we both have been reporting... not even bothering hints or smileys... that there will be a RWD Zeta going to Chevrolet from Holden.

I believed it would be the next Commodore, and I suspect so did Josh.

With Pontiac's demise being sped up (instead of languishing as a so-called "niche brand as the G8, Solstice, and Vibe lived out their last couple years of production.... yep, that was the plan), that means plans to move Zeta to Chevrolet are being sped up. That means the current Commodore might end up in Chevrolet's North American lineup...... but because of Chevy's retail volume...not as a civilian vehicle.....

..... at least not at first.

..... and the G8-ST isn't quite as dead as you might think either.

Arresting proposition: This Commodore-based concept police patrol car in Los Angeles Police Department livery might pave the way for a return to US exports for Holden.

US law enforcement vehicle deal could be Holden’s best chance to replace Pontiac G8

By MARTON PETTENDY 28 April 2009


UP TO 40,000 Chevrolet-badged Commodore police vehicles could be exported to the US annually in a deal that would eclipse GM Holden’s current North American export program, which was axed along with the Pontiac brand by General Motors last night.

GoAuto has learned that a plan to supply hi-tech Australian-made patrol cars to US law enforcement agencies – led by the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) – could be joined by lucrative police vehicle exports to Canada, the UK and the Middle East.

And while the prospects of reviving plans to sell the Holden Ute in the US as a GMC continue to exist, it is understood the now-defunct Commodore-based Pontiac G8 has a good chance of morphing into a full-time Chevrolet model for US public consumption.

In an ironic twist, if green-lighted, the police project could see Holden’s Commodore effectively replace Ford’s aged Crown Victoria as the vehicle of choice for many US police departments, which require large, V8-powered rear-drive sedans.

The Crown Victoria, which was discontinued from public sale in 2008 and will be phased out of production for US fleet customers next year, has long been touted as Ford Australia’s most obvious US export opportunity for the Falcon.

Some US police departments have already adopted Dodge’s new Charger, but the Crown Victoria still attracts 60,000 annual sales for Ford, representing a potentially massive export opportunity for Holden.

Officially, Holden remains cautious about spruiking the prospects of sending Commodores to the US as part of a police vehicle export program, but national media relations manager Scott Whiffin admitted to GoAuto this week that a Pontiac G8-based LAPD prototype produced by Port Melbourne-based National Safety Agency (NSA) has “enormous” potential.

“That’s certainly something that is being looked at very closely,” Mr Whiffin revealed. “We are looking at all opportunities.

“Holden has a really good reputation for seeking out opportunities in the marketplace and benefiting from them, and our work starts now in terms of finding new opportunities for this vehicle.

“The law enforcement opportunity is one and certainly we’re looking at that without going too far too fast.”



NSA operations director Des Bahr, who will next week present his company’s LAPD Prototype Vehicle concept to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, was more forthcoming about the project, which has also received interest from law enforcement groups in the UK, Middle East and Asia.

The left-hand drive Pontiac police car, which was jointly developed by the NSA and the LAPD – which is believed to be highly enthusiastic about the project – was launched by the LAPD’s deputy chief Charles Beck at the 2009 APCO Australasia Conference & Exhibition, held at the Australian Technology Park in Sydney over March 2-4.

Mr Bahr said his company was in talks with nine separate US law enforcement jurisdictions, which together represent a fleet of up to 40,000 vehicles a year.

“The potential is enormous, given that we’ve got nine jurisdictions interested and even that alone is tens of thousands of cars,” Mr Bahr told GoAuto this week. “They are interested in the project to determine whether this, which could be deemed as a replacement for the Crown Victoria, is suitable for their environment.

“We’re talking in the vicinity of 30,000 to 40,000 cars annually or at least every couple of years based on the kilometres they do.

“We’re only in the early stages, but apart from the US there has been interest in the UK and Canada. We’re due to fly to the US next week to present to some interested groups in Canada, so it’s gaining a lot of momentum over there.”

Mr Bahr said interest in the vehicle had also come from the Middle East as late as last week.

“That’s in the early stages of understanding what we’re doing with the project to determine whether the Asia region could piggyback off that as well, so there’s literally huge potential,” he said.

Mr Bahr said two examples of the LAPD Pontiac G8 would be sent to the US for testing by mid-year.

Mr Bahr said that while he was awaiting official confirmation from Holden in relation to how the project could be affected by GM’s latest restructuring announcement, the LAPD project vehicle’s presentation to law enforcement groups globally would not be affected.

“This is an NSA project,” he said. “We’ve just chosen the GM platform to display what we’re producing at our end, so there are a couple of components: the car itself as a patrol vehicle and an extension of that is the integrated technology that we’re proposing to put into the vehicle.

“We’ve chosen the G8 platform on which to build the vehicle given that a lot of the earlier research was done on the Commodore platform.

“It was easy to adopt that research and technology onto the same car which is accepted in the US market, so it’s through a working relationship we have with LAPD and we brought GM into that to participate.”

He said the vehicle could be modified locally by Australian suppliers for export as a turn-key product.

“We have arrangements with other organisations that do (have the ability to series produce the LAPD prototype), but our involvement would be for the installation and fit-out of what we call the turn-key technology for that vehicle,” said Mr Bahr.

“At this stage it’s a concept to be sent to the US for acceptance or otherwise for suitability, but we have been working with LAPD for the last few years, sharing information on the research we have been doing. So it’s about adopting integrated solutions that they’re already familiar with on a new platform.

“We are looking forward to developing this vehicle with the LAPD and Australian industry. This project will break down the barriers between agencies worldwide, leading to a common platform to provide maximum benefit to those who are charged with protecting our communities.”

Chevrolet Commodore ready to go

GoAuto understands that if a deal is struck with the LAPD, which is regarded within Holden as a test-case for other US police jurisdictions, the LAPD vehicle would most likely be badged as a Chevrolet – not a Pontiac.

In turn, it is understood that could lead to retail exports to the US of the Commodore, which finally appears to have gained ‘traction’ in the US market despite a recent lack of promotion and could be sold as a performance model within the Chevrolet Performance Division, which is the US equivalent of HSV.

When asked whether GM would shift any of Pontiac's models to other brands, GM CEO Fritz Henderson said: "Solstice... no. Vibe we're talking with Toyota about and may run it into the 2010 model year as one of the last Pontiacs remaining." But he made no reference to the G8.

Holden already exports a left-hand drive Chevrolet-badged Commodore to the Middle East - and South Africa - as the Lumina, which means the basic modifications needed to prepare the car for sale as a Chevy in the US have already been done.

Holden has also exported a police car based on the previous-generation platform architecture to the Middle East, New Zealand and elsewhere.

If approved for export, the Chev-badged Commodore could be positioned above the Barina-based Chev Aveo and the mid-sized Malibu, and sold either alongside or instead of the full-size front-drive Impala sedan, which is due to be replaced in 2012.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575A6001F0097
Anyone still wonder why I've been thrilled about GM the past couple of months.

Last edited by guionM; 04-28-2009 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by guionM
..... and the G8-ST isn't quite as dead as you might think either.
El Camino?
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rlchv70
El Camino?
The article said GMC, which means either "Sprint" or "Caballero".

Actually GMC would make more sense than Chevy if it is going to be a low volume vehicle.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rlchv70
El Camino?

Ya, that would be the obvious name for it... and it will sell 10 times better just being in the Chevy showroom too (if it ends up there), because as much as the G8 did fit int he Pontiac showroom, the G8 ST would NOT have.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
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I think the chevy version looks better than the pontiac one and would sell better. It looks amazing as a police vehicle too! And who cares what name they give it! I'd prefer Impala or Lumina, but it doesn't really matter that much. Hell, you can call it a Corsica or Beretta for all I care.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:15 PM
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How about just GMC El Camino.

One thing that doesn't make sense, why not keep making the Solstice instead of the Vibe. Why would anyone buy a brand new Vibe knowing the resale is going to get slammed on this dead brand. Solstice is different, it is an enthusiasts car. I could see resale for the GXP coupe being very good.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:20 PM
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Holden’s four-door Crewman utility made an appearance as the GMC Denali concept vehicle...
Now that is a vehicle I would buy!
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:21 PM
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Guy - I've been asking since yesterday all over the 'net for somebody, some place to show me that GM said the G8 was not going to be made over into something else. All Fritz said, as I published here http://www.thegmsource.com/index.php...articleid=1140 is that the Solstice and Vibe were mentioned.

Also you'll find an interesting quote in the bottom of what I wrote yesterday regarding what the G8 has shown GM regarding a mainstream rear-wheel-drive sedan in North America.

I thought the G8 would go to Chevy in 2012 and did so right up until yesterday. Today though, I've reported that G8 contracts for production are set for at least 2010 with suppliers in Australia. http://www.thegmsource.com/index.php...articleid=1141

The G8 ST I've heard rumblings about recently and asked Jim Hopson about it in a recent interview (done 4 days ago) and of course received the natural PR reponse. Jim however did say there was regret in not seeing it come to market. Take it for what people will.

And while the prospects of reviving plans to sell the Holden Ute in the US as a GMC continue to exist, it is understood the now-defunct Commodore-based Pontiac G8 has a good chance of morphing into a full-time Chevrolet model for US public consumption.
Morphine eh? Loks like I used that word just days ago. Seems something is going on, right?

Exclusive: Pontiac G8 Morphs Into Rear-Wheel-Drive Impala In 2012

Last edited by Josh452; 04-28-2009 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Z28x
How about just GMC El Camino.

One thing that doesn't make sense, why not keep making the Solstice instead of the Vibe. Why would anyone buy a brand new Vibe knowing the resale is going to get slammed on this dead brand. Solstice is different, it is an enthusiasts car. I could see resale for the GXP coupe being very good.
Solstice's value was in being an image car for Pontiac. Even assuming a mild loss on each car made (though the car evidently made a slim profit) the Solstice was worth far more as an sellable advertisement for Pontiac the way the Prius was worth more as a sellable advertisement for Toyota. Without a Pontiac Motor Division or at least a future for the division, there's no need for a car that is being sold for advertisement value.

Vibe, on the other hand, is a volume seller & essentially a currently produced Toyota.

The G8's demise, as is now public, was greatly exxagerated. We can thank the G8's defying the gravity of a car company whose sales have plunged 50%.

Holden pegged maximum G8 sales at 2500 cars per month. Last month G8 sold over 2700 vehicles.

Regardless as to if it's due to transaction prices being lower than Mustang GTs or that they are headturners that have better percieved quality than any other imported cars at it's price, or if the public just finally realized the car exists despite very little advertisement, the G8 is finally the success that GM planned in it's best case scenario, even though the rest of the car market seems to have been wiped out.

No car maker is oblivious to sales.

Solstice is selling less than 1000 cars per month. I love the things, but I know there's no case to keep them without Pontiac.

The Vibe sells well, and will hang around a bit.

The G8 is Pontiac's best seller now. Seems the plan is to stop production and clear out Pontiac's inventory of G8s, and then start filling fleet and law enforcement orders here in the US under the Chevrolet name (Police won't have Crown Victorias to buy next year, Ford won't have a RWD replacement for it, and GM is going to charge through that opening with the G8 based, mid-east Chevrolet Lumina), and expects to use the Holden Commodore as a Impala replacement instead of spending the money to create a Espilon Impala.

The G8 ST will likely wind up as a halo model for GMC, once the dust settles.


Bottom line...... the G8 ain't dead.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:53 PM
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I've been saying Zeta would make a rockin Caprice for Police use and should have been built and sold since the G8 launch. Strip it down and negotiate contracts based on a specific option set. That way the Caprice wouldnt directly hurt the resale and residuals of the G8.

This is still all in speculation as the cruiser may not be taken well by Law Enforcement here in the US and it might not have the price margins when dealing with the government contract that fixes pricing (where the exchange rates between the US and Oz dollars will flux daily), but the bottom line is this:

If Zeta can be sold at a profit in North America, GM needs every sale [and dollar] they can get.

And I've also heard the "ST" isnt quite dead-as-a-doornail for North American sales - but again, at this point everything is PURE speculation. GM would need to make an incredible case (read: convince people it will make a good profit margin) to get ANY Chevrolet Zeta fast tracked and here before 2012 or 2013.

And I totally posed this in another thread before you did
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:54 PM
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The police angle is interesting. If GM couldn't import these cars profitably for retail sales, you wonder if it's really feasible for fleet sales. (Especially with Chrysler willing to deal to sell Chargers.)

Also Josh452, I would really be surprised if there was another NA Zeta model put into production, because Lutz seemed clear that the program was dead.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:05 PM
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I'll believe it when I F-ing see it.

GM has been so full of crap and outright lies lately that I believe nothing they have to say.

Show me!
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CaminoLS6
I'll believe it when I F-ing see it.

GM has been so full of crap and outright lies lately that I believe nothing they have to say.

Show me!
I was just going to post this. When I see a Zeta based police car cruising the beat, I'll say "yep....it's official." While I hope this is true...everything is up in the air, with ???? next to it.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CaminoLS6
I'll believe it when I F-ing see it.

GM has been so full of crap and outright lies lately that I believe nothing they have to say.

Show me!
Originally Posted by Tokuzumi
I was just going to post this. When I see a Zeta based police car cruising the beat, I'll say "yep....it's official." While I hope this is true...everything is up in the air, with ???? next to it.

GoAuto seems to have all sorts spectacular stories which get message borads fired up.

Read the actual quotes and take it with a big grain of salt guys.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:29 PM
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Keep dreaming Guy!

As much as I'd like to believe the Chevy Lumina as a police vehicle idea, it will never happen, because most law enforcement agencies won't purchase it! For one its too small to be a police cruiser, which is primarily the same reason we tested the Dodge Charger and passed on it for this year's purchase plan. (We went with Ford Crown Vics)

If GM wants to bring a successful police cruiser over from Australia, the best choice would be the Holden Statesmen/Chevrolet Caprice. Its closer in size to the Crown Vics that cops love, but are being phased out. You want a "American" made four-door cops will embrace, then the Caprice is it... not the Lumina/G8.
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