Is there room in the marketplace for 3 retro muscle cars? Is there enough buyers for all 3 cars to survive and even thrive?

What does everyone think?

 

It's the current design fad....... so I suppose so. :blah:

My question is....... how come there's no room for at least ONE modern styled muscle car?!? (Firebird, please.)

 

There is room for the Mustang and Camaro. Challenger doesn't seem to be a super high volume car like those other two. Challenger will probably have GTO levels of sales (if there is no V6)

If GM makes the GTO more modern with past GTO styling queues like the woodward GTO then that should cover both the modern and retro fans at GM (although the new Camaro concept doesn't really seem that retro to me)

 

I think we need to wait and see the specs on the Challenger before we could argue that. Has it been stated thnat the Challenger will be a volume car that can compete price wise with the Camaro and Mustang?

I just hope this backwards 'fad' doesn't last too much longer. There's not much to get excited about coming out of Detroit.:blah:

 

Why would the Challenger not have a more "base" model. I can see the 6.1 R/T in GTO territory, but with a 5.7 as well, shouldn't it be a Mustang, Camaro price competitor?

Granted, I don't see it coming with a 6-cyl in the low 20s like the Charger, but mid-20s with one of the other volume 8-cyls, why not?

We probably can't completely discount an SXT (or just plain "Challenger") version in the lower 20's.

Given the current pricing structure on the other LX cars, I would not be surprised to see $29,995 for a basic RT to undercut the GTO in advertising. Bring in a basic SXT $24,995 with one of the volume 8-cyls and I think you've got the intended 'enthusiast' market covered.

Styled as it is, they are not shooting for the 6-cyl commuter crowd. The Charger and 300 base models have that covered. They want middle income professionals longing for their (or their dad's) old muscle car.

Leave the commuter 6's to the Mustang and Camaro who have a history with that and built in market. Keep up your volume with the other LXs.

 

Remember the retro Camaro isn't coming out till 2009! Thats like betting an oil stock will be hot in 3 years because it is today.
By then who says the mustang will still be retro. By then fad's may have changed.

 

Retro is not going away anytime soon. The auto industry is large enough to offer both retro as well as modern/contemporary designs.

If you want modern looks and speed at an affordable price you need to look @ 4cyl. fwd cars since they own that market. American RWD coupes will own their own niche of retro design themes and will sell for a price premium over the FWD 4cyl coupes. Most young kids don't want RETRO designs while many older baby boomers do. Most young kids can't afford a more expensive RWD coupe to begin with and even less can afford the high insurance costs of V8 RWD. It just makes more financial sense to target RWD coupes like the Stang, Challenger, and Camaro towards those wealthier Babyboomers who can afford them and the insurance.

If you want a affordable, modern designed chevy (inside and out), that's pretty fast (by historical standards), go buy a 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged

People have been saying Retro is a fad since the 1998 VW bug was released, and now it's 2006MY now and Retro is still here (and will be in 2009).

 

The success of these cars will depend more on the cost of the car then what kind of sales they have or don't have. Apparently, the Challenger "should" be able to be built on the same line as the rest of the LX cars. The only change there has to be is a "flip of a switch" to change the programming. If this happens, then Chrysler could build 10k cars and still make a profit. They could also shift production between the 4 cars for when demand shifts to they don't have to have to worry about excessive supply of cars that arn't moving.

 

The Mustang has already proven itself good enuff and popular . "If" the other 2 are good enuff , I think they will cut into the foreign competition more than themselves . Alot of enthusist defected to a EVO or a STI ....trust me ...I know a few F-body guys that went that way . I also think , "if" their good enuff , cars like the 350Z and G35 coupe will also become less appealing . Plus DCX does not seem to have any intention of volume sales with the Challenger . So , yeah ....I think theres MORE than enuff market . Again , "IF" , their good enuff

 

I think that might be right, but at that point, does the styling become a hinderance? The other cars you mentioned all have modern appeal with modern styling to match so will a retro muscle car appeal to these same people? I would say that the answer is "yes" to some but "no" to most. I would love for the Camaro to steal sales and create new Camaro fans but I think GM painted themselves into a corner with the styling. This "new" design HAS to draw in people from the 350Z, G35, EVO, RX8, Mustang, and so on for it to be a success and even survive. That means that people who might not even think about a Camaro or might not even like Camaros have to be drawn to this car and the styling is the first thing that is going to have to do it.

 

I actually think the Camaro will only appear to be retro to those who know what a first gen Camaro looks like . IT seems like more chisled and angular designs are becoming more prevelent than swoopy styling . And actually chop the front clip off the Mustang , and its a really contempory design to those who arent familiar with a late 60's era Stang .

 

I not only think there's room for 3, but I think all 3 will do very well in the marketplace as long as they are good cars.

Sit outside a busy street and watch all the cars go by. 90% are modern, attractive designs. But when a Mustang (or a 300 or Charger for that matter) go by, regardless as to if you love them or hate them they grab your attention.

A car like the Challenger or the wide and low Camaro are styled so differently than anything on the road that they are going to look pretty dramatic when they drive by. And that's the whole idea.

To most enthusiasts who spend time at antique car shows or some specialty car gatherings, Challenger, Mustang, and (to a far lesser degree) the new Camaro, resemble the old cars we worship. Alot of us either don't see the big deal or hate the whole retro idea because "nothing replaces the originial". But we're missing the entire point.

The cars are designed to stand far away from the crowd, and be uniquely American and very agressive looking. They are made to ****** the car buying public's attention like Goldberg grabbing you by the collar.... and it's going to work. Like crazy.

The new Challenger may look like the old version that lost all the fat. But after seeing thousands and thousands of Toyotas, Impalas, Hondas, Five Hundreds, and countless other aero-dramatic bodied cars with smooth wind cheating snouts & flush fill-in-the-styling-space headlights, looking almost as tall as they are wide, these new low-slung, blunt nosed, muscle coupes (that are called retro whether deserved or not) are going to be hot. Just by the nature that they are extremely distinctive, and look like nothing esle on the road.

And that's not including enough horsepower to light up a small neighborhood.

 

I hope your right.

The problem is, who really stares at a 300 or Mustang anymore? They are everywhere and are so commonplace that they too don't really stick out anymore.

I remember when the Bettle first came back, it was so different and you couldn't help but look at it. Now, it has worn off and no one takes notice. If the Camaro came out first with the retro styling, I would say that it would be a success, as the Mustang is. I may not have liked it, but there would definatly be a very strong argument in favor of that direction. However, how new and dramatic is the Camaro going to look when you already have hundreds of thousands of Mustangs and Challengers roaming the streets with the same design aesthetic? That, I think, is the main issue. The idea of a retro Muscle car will be old by the time the Camaro comes out.

 

The Mustang and 300s maybe commonplace, but they will never be confused as being anything else. With all the coupes that are out there in the sub 35k market, nothing looks like a Mustang. It is something that is distincative and unquie. That is what the Challenger and the Camaro will bring to the market. How many people complained when the GTO first came out saying it looked too much like a GP or other Pontiacs? While these 3 cars maybe all over the place, you will know them and NEVER confused them with some aero bubble sedan/coupe.

 

But the Camaro will be new.

I think you are throwing all so-called retro design into the same bin. The Challenger doesn't look like a Mustang, which doesn't look like a Camaro. Yet all 3 are going to stand out on their own unique design and merits.

The other point you bring up (What will happen when hundreds of thousands are on the street?), can be applied with every other design. You redesign.

Retro isn't a dead end, nor is it a short term design. PT Cruiser is 6 years old now (about 100 in car years) and it's still selling well. 6 years in, the 4th gen Camaro's sales were on life support.

All car designs can evolve, and this includes retro as much as modern. All designs can have a character line smoothed out or made stronger. Wheel arches can't tell the difference between modern or past design. Green houses change. Grilles and tail lights change.

Finally, what constitutes "retro"? The '94 Mustang qualified back then as much as the current one does now. Ford made big hay over it when it came out. The current Corvette has much in common with the C3 in design. The HHR can be called "retro", but in person it looks not just modern, but almost futuristic. The Chrysler 300 is called modern, but it obviously falls into the retro catagory due to it's 50s era "Ghia" styling.

One can make a good case for Charger being retro, since it's nearly identical in design to the brief life of the 70s version. But making the case for the current Mustang beyond it's massive grille is far tougher (Sheet metal creases and wheelarches are almost directly from the last Stang). And judging by the early pics of the 5th gen Camaro, calling it retro is streching and bending the meaning well past the breaking point.