I think this is the automotive equivalent to "I'm not racist - I invited black people to my wedding!" Every male with a minimum awareness of cars is saving for a Corvette.

The bottom line is that you knowingly posed a slanted question when you said that the car must have a 5-speed automatic. You're implicit point was that very few GM's are technologically on par with import competition.

Now, imagine the reaction I'd recieve if I went onto a Honda or Acura forum and said that I'm willing to give the brand a chance, but snidely added that I would only consider vehicles with a V8 engine. They'd call me an idiot, and probably worse. They would be correct in their assessment of me too, since I'd be blatently slighting competant V6 offerings from Honda and would be wasting their time to boot.

 

Well your opinion of whether I'm 'racist' again GM is yours to formulate, but among many things I didn't think would be necessary to mention:
I've owned just as many domestics as I have imports in my short 7-8 years of owning cars and in addition to the C5/C6 I'm also a big fan of Mustang Cobras, and have been tossing around the idea of grabbing a GMT-900 work truck with the GM card points I've got saved up if the deal is sweet enough.

I absolutely respect Toyota more as a company than I do GM, right now. They along with Honda and to an extent, Nissan (though not so much in the last few years where Nissan slipped into crap quality) are sole reason why GM has stepped up to the plate as determindly as it has today. It's called competition and the heat of it taking away all the customers GM screwed over the last couple of decades with sub-par quality vehicles and sub-par quality customer service is what it took to get them to become customer-oriented again, and not just stock-holder and union-oriented like they'd become comfortable with.

HOWEVER, GM is the home team, and so in the end if I were to pick a company to succeed, I'd absolutely choose GM. Does that mean I'd buy a GM even if I felt it were a poor purchasing decision? Nope. But I hope that some day (and maybe that day is now, which is the point of this thread), I'd be able to buy a GM 4-door mid priced sedan and feel like I made the best decision for my money, not only in value straight off the lot, but in durability, long-term satisfaction, lack of frustration with 'small' issues, good resale value, good service from my dealer, and so on. But that's a gamble, isn't it? The second largest monetary gamble most people including myself make with their money in their lives (second to buying a house). So forgive me if I remain more reluctant than your average GM fan-boy to bet against the historical odds and put my faith immediately back into GM.:blah:

And, BTW... my current car has a 5-speed auto. I just don't want anything less because it'd just feel weird to buy a car 7 years newer with a technically inferior trans. I thought I remembered quite a few GM models having 5-speed automatics, and soon enough quite a few will even have 6-speed autos, right? I've heard the GMT-900 trucks as well as next year's Vette will be a 6-speed auto (RWD) and also remember hearing that GM's colaborative development project with Ford to develop a 6-speed auto for FWD apps had come to fruitation?

 

GM is the home team, and they are the underdog, and I've grown up with GM cars that were reliable in my family. Thus, I really do favor them intensely. I feel they've got the goods to come at this fight with some incredible cars. They've already shown us they can with some pretty exhilrating concept cars and a couple production cars here and there. They won't win the war unless they bring thier A-game, though. I feel this is thier last chance, and too much hinges on every single car they produce in the next few years. Most of the battle over the next couple of years won't decide if GM defeats Honda/Toyota/BMW/Nissan/etc; this battle will decide if GM stays alive, long enough to destroy the competition coming from within. The innards that cannot find the passion within them to really produce a car that sells itself.

As competition intensifies, consumer options grow. Educated consumer will choose whatever best fits thier needs. They won't necessarily go with what's good for the country, they will spend thier money wisely (appropriate to them). I have to laugh at people who are so biased they don't understand that GM is still playing catch up and will tell you to go F off with your imports. In this country we have freedom of choice and no on has to defend that right and capitalism is survival of the fittest. It is GM's own fault they are in the position they are in now. For letting cars like the Camaro languish, when it's functionality and useability and design lagged the competition of 1989 ( Nissan 240sx, better interior space, better ride quality, similar handling capabilites, higher quality trappings inside than the Camaro in 2002); for producing 100s of 1000s of crap like the Lumina, when the Accord from the late 80s was better than that POS, crap like the Cavalier that was like a nightmare on elm street compared to the Civic of the EARLY 90's, cars so far behind the competition and so lacking in any aspirational quality. AND they were the dullest cars you've ever seen. Think back on the Malibu of that time, gosh, it's so dull I could barf, all Olds' before the Intrigue and Aurora (and besides the Cutlass), all Buicks (besides Riv, Regal, and Park Ave), the list goes on and on....

I'm sorry to say I still don't see a GM car that 100% irrefutably matches the competition, except for perhaps the Cobalt, though that will be short-lived since the new Civic is coming this year and looks ready to blow away everything else in the class (except for, yet again, in the design department). I agree with Guy that the G6, Cobalt, and Equinox are some of the best cars GM produces, and they have a lot of "world-class" cred in them. However, each one of those cars is still a compromised car, imo. The Equinox has a great powertrain and home-run styling, but for being so large on the outside it's not so on the inside and the interior is very run-of-the-mill and not totally high quality. Cobalt has the makings of an avalanche hit, but interior space is lacking and exterior design is nothing but anonymous and Honda-wannabe. G6 stole its proportions from the Altima, it's a sexy car, with certain wheels only though. It could be so much better with the 3.6L DOHC engine. I heard a G6 accelerating today and it was not a pretty sound, that driver was pushing it hard and that G6 would not stop wailing to be let off of, not the most inspiring and race-worthy sounds. G6's interior also could be much better, and didn't have to be a knock-off of Malibu.

So you see, I am a hardcore GM fan, but I'm also a firm beleiver in freedom of choice, and I don't care what anyone has to say about that. You give me a good reason to buy GM and I will. I'll give you a good reason for GM to shoot for the top: if they don't learn how to match the competition, me and my entire family (4 car-buying siblings) will all move on to imports (most of them already have, but there is hope). If GM wants to hold on to my family and average families all over the country, they will have to represent with some obsessively detailed and passionately crafted cars.

All that said, there are plenty of "good" cars from GM:

STS
CTS
SRX
XLR (awesome)
C6 (awesome)
9-3
new Impala (another drop in the bucket so anonymous)


Exceptional:
Solstice
Sky

 

OK, this rationalization would almost hold up if you weren't saving up for a car with a 4-speed auto*, pushrods, and leaf springs

I'm know you know these things about the Corvette, so I'm sure you also know that the latest "gee whiz" technology does not necessarily make a better car. I don't believe a 5-speed auto is the make or break threshold for a great car..

*Yes, the Corvette will get a 6-speed shiftable auto for 06

 

Lets start the import war!

on the subject of sub par quality,

I always remember a good Toyota (dealer) comerical, from the Orange county Toyota Dealer..

Where they would sing, "Where You won't get a lemon!" (guys voice now) "I wouldn'ta got a lemon?" singing "Where You won't get a lemon!" (guys voice now) "I wouldn'ta got a lemon?" singing "Where You won't get a lemon at Toyota of Orange"
or something similar to that, and of course refering to the american car manufactures as lemons... now I believe GM will start to turn the tides within the next few years with toyota quality, of course that is my opinion, but their vehicles quality is only getting worse, and GM's are only getting better.

as most of you know my luck with toyotas have been exceedingly poor, where as my father who owns the vehicles is still a happy customer, whats the difference? the small stuff. My dad wants a car to go from here to there, I want to be happy while going from here to there. "Ahh theres the rub?" driver satisfaction is also important to me, and that means that buttons ought to work, and if you think a dash board can look pretty plain(gm) try one that falls apart(toyota) Granted my firebird is missing some buttons but I think they were stolen before I got the car.

 

Most of the qualifications I mentioned were not 'make or break', but if a car met or exceeded all of them then it would be more likely to impress me, which is what I was getting at.

And the fact that I want a C5 or C6 has nothing to do with my above qualifications as I would never buy a Corvette with an auto, and I don't care that it has leaf springs (even though they aren't old school leafsprings in the traditional sense) and a pushrod - those work fine and dandy for the Vette obviously based on specs.

Would they work fine for a 4-door family or entry level luxury car? Obviously not. Or at least GM doesn't seem to think so.

 

Russ,
The interior upgrade you mentioned is standard on GTs and GXPs, and part of an option package on a base model. It adds chrome trim around the dash vents, the coolest steering wheel I've ever seen (perforated black leather with silver stitching, polished spokes and a matching shift ****), polished trim on the door pulls, polished door handles and a few other detail changes. It really woke the inside up nice. I still think the design is not as nice as the G6, but its a very sweet addition. Besides, with the GT and the GXP, its all in the drive anyway, especially the GXP

Now, if Pontiac would just MARKET the damn cars...no one really knows about the V8 GXPs yet, or that the '06 GTs are blown. And Threxx, I'd add a circle jerk bow for you, but it doesn't seem as appropriate at this juncture

 

I cant believe no one has kicked this guy in the nads yet, is he stupid or just trying to act like an a-hole? Every car I can think of has a direct domestic competitor except for like two maybe.

 

Most any car on the market has at least a handful of competitors from Europe, Japan, and the US. My question was if I was to test drive one car and only one car, which car would I be most impressed by, and then I gave some of the things that I value in a car.

But if you'd like to try and internet kick me in the nads, go ahead. Not sure how it's done, but it'd be interesting to see and worth the pain if you managed to do so just to see.

 

I dunno. I recently went to a C&D ride and drive event that had an STS take on a BMW 5-series and the STS looked much classier. I guess I still haven't warmed up to the new BMW look.

 

This is a real question a lot of buyers wrestle with. A lot of times it comes to incentives to push someone over to "accepting" a domestic. Right now, I don't know that there's anything that suits my needs from GM either (employee pricing and card earnings included). Not that there aren't some interesting offerings in the pipeline.

The big cars that win over all shoppers IMO are the ones that stick out of the crowd stylistically and elicit emotion. Cars like '05 Mustang, 300, and the New Beetle and PT upon introduction. As improved as a Cobalt is over its predecessor, many won't even end up giving it a look because it still looks too close to a Cavalier and then subsequent assumptions are made. If shoppers do realize the GM product is improved, they can still go with the just as bland Honda that has a better reputation and resale value. Same story with the homely Buicks.

So what does GM have that stands out from the pack? HHR, Solstice, Sky, Corvette, Hummers, Cadillacs...

GM also needs to do a better job of marketing its performance offerings. I don't know if many realize an Impala or MC could be had with a V8. Dodge is doing a tremendous job with their HEMI line in this regard. That's also a drawing point for buyers who don't typically shop a particular brand. You want muscular attitude, you go to Dodge. What are you getting with a Chevy versus a Pontiac? GM's offerings come across as too anonymous, bland and utilitarian. I don't doubt that many believe GM is what you get when you can't bring yourself to pay a chunk more for what you really wanted.

Better (more exciting) product, followed by better (more exciting) marketing and you'll have an easier time answering why to go GM over an import.

 

Focus is already world-class leader... guess it didn't need to be mentioned.

 

Alright well I dont know if you caught it or not but the kicking you in the ***** part was not literal, I was simply calling you an arrogant jackass because you came on to a mainly Camaro/GM website and start directly and indirectly badmouthing Gm. I just dont get it, you could have asked the same question without being that way and I would have answered it.

 

No competition for the Legacy GT... Then again, that's 20% GM already, hehe.

CTS was the closest car in the GM fleet.

Ford and DC had nothing.

-B

 

i thought thas was the reason people bought the srt-4

or a v6 mustang

but if it has to be gm: sky and solstice...end of story