Call me crazy, I just don't see where they would put the brass pole!

 

WERM, I'd be interested to hear greater detail on what you would think such a car might be like. Things like which platform, chassis, powertrain....

 

Put Cobalt's body on backwards. Done

 

Well, I hadn't really thought it out in that much detail but I'll shoot from the hip:

About the size of a Golf. Maybe a little larger. Preferably a 3 door model of some sort.
Base: 4 cyl
Top model: 4 cyl Turbo

It's going to take out of the box thinking, that's for sure, but here's my shot (This only considers GM, lots of other companies have different ways of accomplishing this).

Method A: Use the Solstice platform and try to cram a small set of seats in the back. Put the body of the Nomad on it, make it a hatchback. Kind of like a golf on steroids. If they could squeeze the extra seats in it, it could sell as an economical sporty car, and as a practical stormer with the turbo motor. However, two issues with this approach is that I don't think the solstice platform could handle two extra seats (where would the gas tank go?) and I don't think the pricepoint would start low enough - Could removing the convertible hardware but adding back in the A/C - required in a hardtop car - drop the starting price 3k to 17,000? I doubt it. But hey, they have to do a next generation solstice platform someday, right? If we expand beyond GM, Mazda could do something similar with the Miata platform.

Method B: Do a new platform, but use as much of the Cobalts platform as possible (like they did with the fiero). Engineeringwise, this sounds daunting, but didn't they do a lot of this with the original solstice show car? Not that I think it meets any sort of crash standards, but there are currently kits out there to convert your Focus to V8 and RWD. Maybe this is a possibility. Probably not, though.

Method C: Just suck it up and do a new platform. Tool it up for high volume, and also base the next Solstice and sky off of it. Also throw in a RWD sedan or 5 door, ala the 1 series BMW. Sell it in europe also (but you gotta keep it small). Again, use a lot of existing GM components.

 

i think so as i think it would be a higher seller than the solstice is right now.

 

Such a car would be a rolling abombination to man and God.

Some dastardly child of a Cobalt and a S10 that with wagon like proportions, handling and comfort.

 

Of course it's in the dealer's best intrest to load a car with as much stuff as they can get away with. Dealers get a cut of options as much as (or more than) they get a cut out of the car model itself. It's been that way since at least the 1960s, and I'd bet longer.

The only way you'll ever get a base model of anything (unless the dealer orders it themselves to advertize and bring people into the lots..... ever see a great price with the disclaimer: "1 available at this price"?) is to order it yourself. It's no mystery as to what base models cost.... it's on the sticker.

Problem is, people don't want to do that. Instead of ordering a $23,000 base Camaro Z28, & waiting 6-8 weeks for a car that has nothing, there's a Camaro Z28 sitting on the lot with that nice $800 T-roof, that $900 leather interior, those $1200 value package, those spiffy chrome rims, and a few other items, although it costs $28,000 that's just an extra $1000 per year or a mere $50 per month, they think..... "hell, that's less than what I spend at Starbucks in a week!! Well, how often am I gonna buy a new car... you only live once! Then you look up what's selling, and see stripper models selling as well as Leprosy-self-infection-kits.

 

I think we're talking stripper models, not model-strippers.


I'd see it as a live axle, car with Solstice drivetrain. Body on frame, but at the most, a modified version of Kappa.

Solstice already has Colorado's differential, so just adopt the whole live axle. Mustang does a commendable job of keeping things in place, so unless someone plans on carving up curves on cobblestone roads, no one will miss the difference. I don't hear too many F-body people complaining either.

Body on a frame is cheaper as well. That's how Corvettes and pickups make huge profit margins. The all new VE uses a mongrel mix of BOF and unibody to make a large variety of setups very cheaply, with the frame parts taking the brunt of head-on and rear crash forces.

Wiring and major components should come from Cobalt. Mustang uses quite a few components from the Focus (created quite a rukus early on when...typically... people hear this and go into hysterics because they imagine a Mustang based on a Focus chassis ), so tons of time & money can be saved using one already tested & in production.

Design should come from GM's "garbage bin". That's where Solstice came from. The now dead US made Saturn Ion replacement had a great looking interior design. Doors cost money to make and certify in crash tests. Imagine if existing doors (again, using Cobalt as a base) are incorperated. Everything including window mechanics are already done. One can even make the Cobalt instrament panel look completely different with different materials and guage design.



In theory, the car should be at least as cheap to make as a Cobalt, and possibly cheaper, easily.

But then you have to put on your business hat on, put the responsibility of hundreds of thousands of workers, and people whose lives are dependant on your decisions, and a very limited amount of resources, and ask "Why"? or "Is it necessary"? Not to mention "Can I convince the other people on the board to take this gamble and comit the resources as well?" And that's gonna be tough:

* You have a Cobalt that's selling very well, and a blown model thats earning alot of import converts.

* The Cobalt is also one of the only small cars in the US that's actually earning profits in it's own right.

* You have studies that show that people who buy cars in this price range either want FWD, or couldn't name the difference between FWD & RWD even after pictures and a detailed explaination.

* You are still essentially spending money to create a car you already have for a market you are already selling in.

No doubt there isn't one person on this site who dosen't salivatate at the thought of a cheap, sub $20K, rear drive, performance car. But it's like that annoying friend who tells you after a fight YOU were in what he'd have done, and how badly he'd kick the person's a**.

If we were actually in the position where WE would have to make a case for it in front of a board that wants to see facts, figures, and studies, and asks alot of very difficult questions, prods for holes and weaknesses, filters out emotional reasons, and plays devils advocate, we'd probally get steamrolled..... pretty badly I'd say.

 

You've probably given a pretty decent description of what "Kappa II" might be like. It certainly will be designed for higher volume than Kappa, with a number of body styles. Just a guess, but I'd bet the Corvette inspired control arms go away, for something cheaper.

 

http://www.autodeadline.com/detail?s...59070&mime=JPG

Solstice uses a Sigma diff.

 

I beleive that you can get the car you want today. From Lotus. Unfortunately, they're not cheap, in part due to low-volume import costs, in part because Lotus engineering is worth it, and in part because Lotus knows they can charge a lot.

 

I hope you mean body on frame like corvette and not like a pickup truck. Also, using a live axle would be pretty weak. It wouldn't be a drag car, so arguments over the durability don't really hold. Besides, if I wanted a cheap body on frame car that couldn't handle, I'd just get a colorado.

 

Although I'm sure this is not what the original poster had in mind, we're getting pretty close to describing a modern, GM version, of the old Datsun 510.....which is very cool with me.

http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/

 

except that you couldn't build that car today for cheap......remember, the world has changed in terms of emissions/crashworthiness/safety...

The whole idea behind Chevrolet is to offer more than expected at a Chevy price......but as Guy points out.....the public at large does not want stripped. When you look at how many 'base' Camaro V6s and 'base' Z28s were sold from 1993 thru 2002 -- you'll see that the numbers were small... (base meaning base car with no options or higher option packages....)

Further -- there has been, in the past, an outcry that the foreign manufacturers offer more standard equipment than domestics...something we've since addressed......

Yes.....there is a market for a couple of these...but if you were the guy in charge -- would you do it -- knowing that you may lose 5 figures for every one sold in today's environment?

 

one other thing.....the reason a dealer shows "one only at this price" has little to do with the options.......and everything to do with the fact that it's a price leader in terms of it being substantially below the invoice price.

Contrary to popular belief, a dealer does not make much more on a highly optioned car than a lightly equipped car.....(apples to apples -- versus apples to oranges -- and by that I mean an Impala LS versus an LT.....) The fact remains that most people already know what the invoice price is -- and will pay X number of dollars over invoice -- so $500 over invoice on an Impala LS versus $500 over invoice on a fully loaded Impala LTZ is still $500.