Not trying to be negative here, but the absolute number of models exceeding 30mpg doesn't mean much all by itself. I'd be more interested in the percentage of GM models that exceed 30mpg in comparison to Toyota et al. Or the percentage of vehicles sold that exceed 30mpg.

 

Ah, thus we enter 'The Marketing Spin Zone'.

Whatever you do (GM), don't bring back those two retards who would try to sell an Impala or Malibu over the loudspeaker at the grocery store.

 

Is there anybody that really has any doubt that a Camaro (or a Camaro by another name - but I think it will be Camaro) is coming out in the not-too-distant future? As posted in an earlier thread, the issue is really when - not if.

2007? Most say too early.
2008? Seems to be the odds-on most likely year.
2009? Probably not that late.

Beyond "when", the only real question is what the car will look like. Not worried about performance, as the LSx has that taken care of pretty well (barring new, currently unforseen huge raises in CAFE or something like that).

 

One other quick thought.....Scott posted that new car prices had increased 38.8% between 1982 and 2005.

Can somebody tell me what a typically-optioned 1982 Z28 cost, and then compare to a typically-optioned 2002 Z28?

I know he was talking all vehicles, but I think that would be another interesting tidbit.

 

STATEMENT: “OH YEAH? WELL MY TOYOTA/HONDA/BMW/MERCEDES IS BUILT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES!”


82% parts in the average GM car or truck are domestic content
At Honda, it’s 49%
At Toyota, it’s 41%
Nissan? 38%
BMW? 11%

(by the way……go look at what the ‘transplants’ pay in taxes….real estate, school, state and federal……you might be surprised……if you’re a teacher and you’re complaining about budgets in you’re driving a Toyota or Honda, SHUT UP!)

GM/Ford/and DCX provide 23.4 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

The Japanese competitors? 13.3 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

GM’s capital investment in the United States from 1999 thru 2003 was $20Billion. Toyota’s capital investment from 1980 thru 2003 was $10.7Billion. Nissan’s? 2.8Billion from 1980 thru 2003…Honda? $5.6Billion – ’80 thru ’03.

GM’s contribution to the U.S. Gross National Product (GNP) is 4 times that of Toyota

Every Day, over 1 million North Americans earn their living by helping GM build and sell cars in North America. – Every month, 457,000 retirees and their spouses count on GM for pension checks. More than 1.1 Million people receive health care benefits from GM. A one-point drop in GM market share results in over 18,000 jobs in the United States.




Red

Great post! Can you go into a little more detail about the "transplants" and how they affect school budgets. I am an elementary school principal in Toledo and am always giving my teachers and VP **** about buying foriegn cars.

Thanks!

 

I remeber '87 GTA's hit 20k and everyone freaked. Loaded IROC was about 18k that same year. in 2002, top models were 30-35k.

 

Tks for the info, I remember that too. It would be interesting to have 1982 vs 2002 info.

 

haha i always thought Fbodfather was someone else who stole the name and was trying to pretend to be you

anyways great information. Now how to tell the average joe this...

 

I still have the sticker from my 87 IROC and it came in at $19,868.00. The base was $12,819.00. I'm not sure if it had all of the options, but it had most of them (350, T-tops, all power). No leather or CD, was this an option in 1987?

 

You can have all of the good press and have threads like this one:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374072

show up on the net and influence many people. G.M. still has it's work cut out for it.

 

CD was an option in 89 but only like 3 were built. The CD returned in 1990 and something like 120 were built. It is not really desireable then as error detection was poor, remember this is when a Sony DCP8 was like $800, but would be worth something now as an oddity. In 85 or so you could get a 4" sub from the factory. It went where the 6x9s went and had a higher pitch speaker paired with it. It is QUITE rare and is pretty cool.

 

Red-excellent data. You have definately done your homework. I would go along with the others, GM should improve the adv/marketing of information like this to consumers-it would help to change some of incorrect negative perceptions. Lets be honest, marketing is something GM could use some help with. Does GM ever look at its website job applicants?

One problem with all these lists that GM has made comes about when a car like LeSabre or Century makes the quality list but has already been buried by someone higher than the marketing department. Hard to tout the quality of a soon discontinued product. Hopefully this will stop Bob on his flawed rename game.

 

I don't know if this qualifies as an opposing post, but I am curious about the statistics on "domestic content". Does 82% refer to domestic suppliers or actually domestic built and engineered products?

The only reason I bring this up is GM has been wreaking havoc on its suppliers as of late with strong arm tactics to constantly reduce their prices. This has lead to supplier bankruptcies and to many surviving suppliers literally being forced to move operations out of this country. The outsourcing pretty much includes manufacturing, engineering, and any other job that can be filled more cheaply in China, India, Poland, Mexico, etc.

This situation creates the opportunity for GM (and other companies) to brag about their Domestic suppliers and then take a don’t ask, don’t tell approach to where their products really come from.

I guess the point is: buying from a domestic supplier does not necessarily mean you are getting “domestic content”.

 

Great Posts! I know I learned some surprising info, good too!

I'm GM all the way!,
2 Buicks, 3 Chevy's, 1 Pontiac

Only one area that I hope is fixed...
PAINT...
many 7 to 8 year old GM's are sheding "huge pieces" of paint...including:
My '90 IROC(jams, hatch, cowl), my '88 Suburban(center two-tone), my '95 ($35K-sticker) Park Ave(everywhere!)...it seems to be certain colors too.....WHITE and DARK BLUE are the ones I see the most.
Doesn't help the image on the street...
Reliability excellent!!...cost of repair LOW...mileage good, power GREAT...
But the darn paint is an expensive fix...($3k+)
Like I said, maybe it's already fixed, now???..

 

Product. Even with all the improved quality, enhanced MPG, greater fit and finish, quality awards, etc. I still can find only a few GM cars I would actually want to buy. When I subtract the ones I can't afford there isn't much left for me. BTW, I also feel the same way about the recent Hondas and especially Toyota, so it's not just GM.