So besides the Volt which isn't going to be available to most people, does GM have anything coming out? How is their small diesel program coming along? I know they have some in Europe, are they any good and are there any plans to bring them over here?

 

They're supposedly bring the 1.4L gas version over next year for the Cobalt. I haven't seen anything on the diesel ecotecs though.

I'd give a turbo diesel ecotec serious consideration.

 

We pull with a 496ci extended cab HD Silverado. Its 2wd. We got about 10mpg yesterday pulling a 28' enclosed trailer with a 3000lb Camaro race car, some nitrous, looots of tools ect... It can get down to 8 I think. Unloaded I think 16 or 17 is the best it will get. It has a verra ram stack and filter, Predator, and Gibson exhaust..

 

yah an then factor in the increase price of the car. plus the price of diesel seems to be going up faster then the price of gasoline. so the gap may grow more especially when you put more strain on diesel supplies by putting a ton of diesel cars on the market.

what the average consumer keep there car for? 32 month? i dont keep mine past 100k that means most people would have to get there money back on the fuel they burn with in 32 months thats less then 3 years. and i would have to get back the cost of the car and fuel in 100k.

my cobalt only cost 13k brand new i average 32.2 and i do half city half high way. i here the new cobalt gets even better millage so i would say it would be hard for a diesel to beat the cost of just conventional car at 40-45 mpg for a diesel.

by the way gas is 3.73 a gallon here diesel price for the cheapest 4.47 but average 4.50

 

Diesel around here is roughly 25% more than gasoline.

 

FWIW, here in Northern California, 87 octane is $4.00, diesel is $4.79 and biodiesel is $4.59.

Its all a matter of supply and demand. If we move towards an alternative fuel, the prices should adjust accordingly.

 

I don't think increasing the Demand for diesel is going to bring it's price closer to gasoline. At least not in the next few years.

 

That's not what I meant. I meant increasing demand will require increasing production. Diesel fuel prices should stabilize. However if biodiesel demand and production were to increase substancially, prices would come down considerably.

 

oh i agree and im for stuff like biodiesel and alternative fuels i just dont think things being the current state they are that diesels are the answer. and even bio fuel will put a strain on crops so its not a real solution as far as i understand at least.

im all for alternative fuel cars and soon as a good viable one comes along ill be one of the first to jump on the wagon. im really hoping for a good electric or hydrogen powered car to come out in the future.

 

Biodiesel can be produced from more than just "crops". Anything from waste oil to animal fats to alge can be used to create biodiesel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

 

That's no longer true either IMO.

I really think we've moved away from a supply/demand market with this.

We're now in a scarcity market, i.e. oil is being bought in a manner that indicates the purchasers are not confident that they'll be able to get it later when they need it. No amount of supply increase is going to reduce the price of oil in such a market.

That pretty much reflects what has been going on in the last year or so. By that I mean we see news reports that consumption is lower than the same time last year but the price of fuel continues to set records.

 

Our demand is down, but China and India's is up exponentially It's a world market. We're selfish and assume we're the only ones who need it, so when our demand is down, and price continues to climb Americans are like, WTF? and don't understand that we're not the only ones who use it.

 

You're not understanding what I'm saying and I'm not referring to only this country.

Supply and demand is not setting the price. Supply is stable and still exceeds demand on a global scale.

Despite this, the price of the product has gone through the roof in the last year. Why? That doesn't happen in a supply and demand market under the aforementioned conditions.

It does happen in a scarcity market where customers fear that they may not be able to get their desired product in the future.


Once again... IMO. Where's an economics major when we need one?

 

Do you have any links that show global demand? My understanding has been that in B.R.I.C. and Middle East countries demand has been climbing pretty good yet supply has been flat at 85 million barrels a day since 2005. Plus China is filling their own strategic petroleum reserve that won't be full until ~2010.

 

AND, if the chart's I've seen are correct, we are currently in the "peak" of supply and within the next 5-10 years, or less, the supply will start to drop. They're forcasting future supply/demand, I guess trying to make all the money they can now?

And chewbacca, I totally agree, as far as I can remember, been driving since '96, fuel has never followed a true supply and demand model.