http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23793222/page/2/



And with Maximum Bob admitting that a Volt could be priced more like a Corvette than a Malibu, you have to wonder just how much of an impact the Volt will really have, at least, out of the gate.....

 

No thanks, the government gives enough in handouts as it is, unless of course they were to sell them at zero mark-up over production costs.

I realize the japanese government gave Toyota a huge hand with that, but there are better ways for the feds to free up capital investment for stuff like this (like ohhhh.... say tax reform - and I'm NOT advocating a reduction in spending, I'm saying our current BS tax system is broke)


---->edit<----
Sorry about that, I really meant to say I'm not advocating, I realize we have some big bills to pay - its just the method we use to collect taxes (and to find the creative loopholes there in) costs everybody a helluva lot of money and sucks the wind out of capital investment. Interestingly as far as I know, Japan is the only other country that institutes higher corporate taxes than the US does, so there maybe some sort of precident for the japanese government to do this sort of thing (fund projects)

 

The problem is that the government is pissing all our money down the toilet in the Middle East so they don't have the money to spend it on something worthwhile.

I would say it would be nice for the Gubment to fund R+D stuff like this (and infrastructure improvement), especially in times slight economic downturns, but that would assume a much more rational policies in Washington.

 

I'm not one to advocate a government handout either, but I do think it's interesting to point out yet another competitive advantage that "others" have enjoyed.

On the other hand, there is the logical argument that if we must lower our dependence on oil for national security reasons, the funding of America's own hybrid/alternative fuel vehicle might be in our best interests.

 

If what Press claims is true, then holee sh-crap.

 

The US Government gave the automakers over a billion dollars for hybrid development back in the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partner...on_of_Vehicles

edit: hmm this looks kinda like a prius

 

Normally I won't like government handout to big business, but in the case of the Volt I say go for it. The government is just going to waste the money anyways, why not put it to good use on something that can advance our society. Maybe they could pay for it by taking back some of the subsidies to big oil.


Seriously though if the Gov't wants to help advance battery tech all they have to do is speed up the funding for NASAs mission to Mars. The trickle down energy tech from that program (Solar, batteries, hydrogen fuel cells) will benefit society greatly and help keep Americas technological edge over the rest of the world.

 

Yeah, I remember that. I thought about it as soon as I posted.

It could be that it was a similar program for Toyota. However, given Japan's history of manipulating the Yen to help their export businesses, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the government just chipped in directly.

I think the PNGV program was a government-initiated "feel-good" program, not something where GM just said "hey, we want to make a high MPG prototype, can you give us some big bucks Uncle Sam?"

GM, Ford, and Chrysler were all in on it, and they came up with some pretty cool (but too advanced for production) stuff. The goal was to come up with a car that did mid-size family duties as well as a Taurus, met basic performance benchmarks, and would achieve 80 mpg

IIRC, the GM Precept came the closest. It was a gas electric hybrid with a 3-cylinder diesel at the rear, and electric motors for the front. It supposedly hit the 80 mpg, but I think it missed the acceleration benchmark (or maybe it was cargo space?).

Neat stuff, anyway.

 

So philosophically, there's no difference between the approach of the US government and the Japanese government - both gave 10-digit sums of money to private companies. What is different is that one effort led to a successful commerical product that is now in production at the rate of about 250,000 units/year, and that the other effort gave us a few concept cars and a few dozen prototypes that were manufactured by university students (in the form of FutureCar/FutureTruck/ChallengeX projects).



If there's a reason to get pissed off at Toyota and Japan, it's because they've frankly been more successful at this game than we have.

BTW, corporations in the US are subject to the R&D tax credit, where the cost of developing new products and technologies can be deducted from the corporation's tax bill. This is a huge amount of money back into a company's pockets every year. It's something to keep in mind before getting too indignant about the amount of assistance that other governments give to their companies.

 

If I'm not mistaken, most western European countries also institute higher corperate taxes than we do.

We've spent 12 billion dollars per month in Iraq on average for the entire time we've been there, roughly 60 months so far. All of it borrowed money (remember how Iraqi oil was supposed to fund everything... but isn't funding anything) that you, me, and every other taxpayer is going to be paying.

I'm sure a mere fraction of what we spend in a single month in that money pit would go a long way towards evening out the playing field.

Those who view it as just another government handout need to take a real look at what's going on in the world. Toyota reaped a 100% financed development for the Prius, leaving Toyota not just with essentially a free drivetrain, but extra money to spend on other things... like overtaking GM globally as the world's largest automaker!

$144 billion every year going to Iraq is never going to reap anywhere near the benefits to the US or national security as a few billion to develop our own hybrid systems, or refueling infrastructure for alternate fuels.

 

How right you are...but keep saying that and suddenly you're a Heretic!

 

If the US gov't got involved the job with have to go to the lowest bidder. Would you really want that?

 

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...how/22917.html

What effect the myriad of subsidies & tax breaks from Congress has on the bottom line is another discussion.

 

Well, it was treated as a feel-good program, but it was also a political quid-pro-quo for not raising CAFE in the early 1990s. Detriot made the argument that a public-private partnership would be a better approach than regulation.

The automakers didn't live up to their end of the deal, and that's a big reason Washington had no sympathy for them when they pushed through the new CAFE standards a few months ago.

 

.. and something like 26Bil gets wired to Mexico last year also.

I wonder how much we spend abroad that was spent here a decade ago? Such as furniture, tiel1 auto suppliers, blue jeans, etc......