Having a failed corporation on the books is bad politics and bad for the union retirees. Anybody taking over GM will quickly figure out exactly what the previous management knew -- the profits are in trucks.

Not to mention that it was GM's old management that bet the farm on Voltec and killed Zeta, because they finally realized that you can't sell trucks without a balanced product portfolio to go along with it. Hang around GM-oriented boards long enough and it's funny to notice how these "products people want" are always in a steep sales decline.

 

[QUOTE=Z28x;5982435]We also have to look past just GM's balance sheet and how they impact the United States GDP, how much tax workers pay, how those dollars keep getting recycled though the economy and how much unemployment would cost tax payers if GM was no more.[QUOTE]


Long term GDP effect would be nil. Other healthier companies would swell to take that market share causing them to be even more strong. Not to mention the billions in bail out money.

The Unions getting anything is absurd. They basically hold unsecured debt. When they get paid over secure debtors...well that's just breaking the law.

I think "We" will get our money back and then some when the Government sells their shares. It's just a really fascist way running business, when the Government can indirectly run companies.

 

If the other company is Ford. If it is a foreign auto company then you are mostly helping that countries GDP.

 

No, It depends on where the product is produced.

 

GM will most certainly be more than 2 division and GM Powertrain.

Last I heard, GMNA and it's core divisions, GM-Europe and Latin America, GM Holden and GM-DAT will all be a part of "Good GM".

The only exception is if GM sells off a stake in GM Europe. If that goes to Fiat, then GM will probably own 30-50% of Fiat as well, making GM the largest automaker in the world again.

We'll see...

 

I don't care about titles pertaining to bigness. I just care about self-sustainability, offering a wide range of vehicles and quality at this point.

Remember when GM had to pay all those billions to Fiat to end that partnership? Getting involved with them again would be interesting to say the least.

 

would that make them have a stake in chrysler?

 

I assume GM's Chinese operations would be part of the "good" GM too. After all, that's about the only reason that Buick did not get the axe in NA.

Do you think "a stake" in Opel would net GM 30-50% of Fiat? Seems a little high to me ...

 

Even at their best, 70% of GM wouldn't even cover 1% of the national debt. Sure, every little bit helps, but I think you're overstating the intent of the government's stake in GM. They're taking it because nobody else will, and the alternative is worse.

 

You guys are funny. First off, you think the government cares about GM making money? You do realize that our government is the biggest money loosing entity the world has known? Think about the hypocracy of it.....we are preached to how we must make "investments and scarifices" in green technology so our children can have clean river to pee in...yet all the while we are spending money (borrowed from countries like China) that our kids grand kids won't be able to repay. Either someone is not seeing the forrest for the trees, or there are special intreasts at play. Ask most people if in 100 years they would rather have a bankrupt US, or slightly warmer planet..I think you know the answer.

Back to topic...had they cared about GM making money they would have put it in bankrupcy immediatly rather than waiting 6 months and dragging everything through the mud. All this dog and poney show has been about is making GM's position as dire as possible to break the automotive lobby. Think about it...just last year GM agreed to new CAFE ratings. If things were going good for them, do you think they would agree to accelerate them just a year later in the middle of being inches from BK? The only reason they agreed to them is because they were told to. Same reason companies like Chase had no reason forgiving Chrysler of secured debt in BK.

If you think that the administration is gonna finance GM's BK, and not communicate what product they should be making (formally or informally)..you simply have your head in the sand.

 

I would hope GM mirrors the VW/Audi model where Chev/Caddy share platforms and technology. I also hope that GM returns to being an innovative and technology driven company with leading edge designs.

Here's hoping!

 

Yes they care about GM turning a profit it is absolute crazy to think anyone involved wouldn't want that.

Money makes the world go round, CAFE is about cutting fuel consumption and cutting back on foreign oil and thus cutting the trade deficit. We all know a gas tax can do that better (Greenspan recommends $3/gal.) but it is also political suicide. Listen to Pickens on this issue. Global production has peaked. It would be very wise for us to move away from oil in the next decade if we want to maintain our standards of living. Gov't will make sure the Volt gets built and rightfully so. GM can't afford to get caught without some thing as good or better than the Prius or Fusion when gets hits $4+ again. We will still have the performance cars as long as they sell and bring in profits.

It is only a matter of time before the currency collapses under the wait of all these trade and gov't deficits. On the plus side a weaker dollar will be good for US based manufacturing.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...&refer=economy

 

I agree 100%, Charlie.

GM's (and Chrysler's) reorganization is based on no substantial changes in the volume of sales from the current level here in the midst of a recession. Throw a decent economic recovery and there's the potential for a pretty huge turn around with a new "lean, mean, quick responding" company.

Of course, there are those who are still mentally stuck on the government steping issue. But it isn't even worth debating those knuckleheads. If they can't comprehend that GM would have been dead months ago without federal funds, and that it was GM's buracracy that exasperated and accelerated them getting into this position, it's pretty pointless in convincing them that GM will wind up in a killer turnaround position and have better vehicles to boot....

.... as long as the economy turns around.

 

I wish I could be as optimistic about GM and Chrysler's post bankruptcy future. Sadly, it seems the majority of Americans look upon these companies with contempt and will not consider their products.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009053...U.S.+aid+to+GM

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...ge_top+stories

 

Well said, Guy.

I read an article recently where Fritz Henderson was quoted to say that the new GM would be profitable if the current volumes remain and GM maintains 18% market share.

If the market picks up, tax payers would surely be getting a good return on investment.