I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But the fact remains, when the competition is able to offer more for the money, it's going to be a big selling point. I mean, hey, why not get the most bang for your buck, all other things being about equal?

On a side note, F-150 sales continue to fall. This could be the year the Silverado ends its 30-year #1 sales run.

 

The Toyota truck is amazing.

The engine is out in the middle of the bay. Easy access from all sides like the good old days. Not shoved up under the cowl like the other guys.

And the best HP

And a 6spd tranny

 

Yea, alot of other good mechanical parts in there that will give them a hardy image. At this rate it will become the farm truck you can throw around and not worry about breaking anything.

 

Nah, the Toyota truck's top powertrain is amazing. What Toyota will find out in this latest attempt is that you can't be good in just one area. The problems I still see are:

1. Milktoast mid-level V8 (4.7) where most of your volume comes from.
2. Ghastly interior.
3. Doesn't stand up to the domestics in terms of value. You can get the 4.8 Silverado for around the same price as a V6 Tundra. No thanks.

 

if i ever get a job driving up and down gigantic teeter-totters, or drag racing on strips that dead end into canyons, ill get a tundra, until then...ill pass

 

Not sure when it will come out. Personally, I believe it will appear with the redesigned trucks. However, there are some who believe it will come out earlier. I haven't bought into that yet.

As for not looking at Ford, I'd say that's probally not true. Ford has all but owned the pickup truck market for longer than most posters here have been alive.

GM, on the other hand, has been cleaning Ford's clock in the luxury SUV market, despite the fact Navigator created the market. I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I think Tahoe is outselling Ford's big SUV.

 

1. No, I'm betting it doesn't. The 5.4L is a VERY tight fit. Heck, even that 4.2L v6 is crammed under the cowl just a bit...

2. Irrelevant. See #1.

My apologies for destroying a thread that went on for too long...

 

Instead of betting, please quote the dimensions of both motors (5.4 vs 6.8) - most importantly, the width, as that is where the fit is "tight".

Thanks.
Bob

 

With accesories being arranged differently, a picture would probably be better.

 

The 6.8 V10 is no wider that the 5.4 3v and just a bit longer. You can cram a 6.8 V10 under the hood on an SN95 Mustang without to much pain.

Unrelated, but, y'know a 6.8 3v V10 would be pretty cool under the hood of the current mustang and probably weighs in or is lighter than the S/C mill now and could make an easy 500 hp, but enough of the LSD laced coolaid - nobody in Ford has the cojones to do that.

 

The 6.8 3v V10 has 362 horsepower and 457 lbs/ft of torque.

The blown SVT 5.4 has 500 horsepower and 480 lbs/ft of torque.

One can only speculate on the V10's fuel economy in the Mustang, but it IS worse than the blown SVT 5.4 Lightning was. The GT500's rating is 15/21...... the same as my 145 horse, 305 V8, 1978 Chevrolet Monza Spyder was.

From a weight standpoint, I'm guessing there isn't much difference, but packaging is likely far easier (and cheaper) with the V8.

In short, there's currently no logical reason on the planet for Ford to stick a Triton V10 in a Mustang.

 

Yeah, I know, but adhering to logic all the time, well just stinks.

I don't know the particulars of the 6.8 V10's tune, but I figure it's along the same line as the regular 5.4 3v in F150, however if it were given a GT style tune, then your talking 443/473, give it a premium fuel tune and that'd jump to 480/487 with an abundance of torque, you could elminate the charge motion plates and pick up a bit more and then to top it off they could use the porting program from here I think that'd make the 500 hp using pretty much off the shelf stuff. Or maybe darn close (given things like the extra drag from the cylinders and the balance shafts). The 6.8 3v is narrower than the 5.4 4v and probably only about 6 inches longer (if that) and now that I think about it probably lighter (given the weight of the super-charger and the intercooler set-up) and maybe cheaper too (regulatory costs aside).

 

Ford already did the v10 mustang, I figured people on this board would be hip to that already. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/050401.html The article says anywhere a mod V8 goes so will the V10.

 

Yes, the Boss 351 car, pretty bad ****, it was a one off short deck V10 using one off DOHC 4V heads and displaced 5.8 liters. (essentially a DOHC 4.6 with 2 cylinders tacked on). The V10 mustang makes it on here when people generally discuss the craptacular sound a Viper makes with its V10 and the sound of V10's in general. Then usually the Boss 351 comes up as the killer sounding V10.

--->edit below<---
Man, the V10 is a whopping 3.93 inches (100 millimeters) longer

 

Wisest post yet in this thread.

I drive trucks. Just put 260 miles on my 250 this weekend in fact - pulling a Mustang on a trailer (with tires and other goodies required for a weekend at a road course). Recently had 48 bales of hay on the back of mine at about 50lbs each. I have a farm, tractors, cars, and such, so I WORK my truck.

I started out pulling a car behind a half-ton truck years ago, and it did "well". Until one day when I had to make an avasive maneuver to avoid an idiot that pulled out in front of me. I had a '72 LTD on a trailer (car was about 4000lbs, trailer about 1200lbs, and the truck was about 5400 lbs tare) that I was taking home to strip the 429/C6/9-inch driveline out of. Despite 2 chain dogs, and a wench, the LTD shifted right on the trailer, and the partially inflated front tire (unknown to me it was going down) managed to drop off the trailer's right edge. We were going down a long incline during this "event". When the car's lower arm hit the trailer, it set off a bounce that started a resonation - it kept getting worse and worse. The car and trailer started "driving" the truck, bouncing it up and down and going side to side simultaneously. Trying to apply brakes only gave the car/trailer more leverage against the truck which made the side-to-side movements worrse, so the only way out of the resonation was to apply the gas.

Well, I managed to save it all, and we can laugh about it now, but it was NOT funny when it happened. THAT event alone convinced me that I need some serious equipment if I am going to haul stuff like that around... and so came the 250SD. Now, I have no trouble dictating where the truck, trailer, and car will go. I have both powered my way out of bad traffic situations, and I have also used the mammoth brakes to stay out of incidents. Speaking personally, I would never consider towing a heavy car on a trailer behind a half-ton ever again, simply because I know how much more capable a 3/4 or 1-ton is at doing it. It was not that my F150 was not capable of towing a car - in fact it did a pretty good job overall, it was the unexpected situation that forced me to make radical maneuvers that caused the load shift and resulting chaos, and put me at the limitations of the vehicle. I don't ever plan to be there again.

So back to the topic - I think these new 1/2 ton trucks are all getting out of hand. The manufacturers need to concentrate more on efficiency than total HP available. Likewise, I'd rather see them concentrate on Tq than Hp, because Tq is what makes a truck "work". More Tq, as early as possible in the RPMs, the better.

As adamantly as I promote carmakers to start working on weight savings in cars, I likewise promote truck builders to build "tough". I don't promote adding weight for the sake of adding it, but if you can make a stronger frame by adding more crossmembers - I say put them in. A beefier tranny weighs 30lbs more - no problem. Be concerned with DURABILITY though - not just making the 1/2 ton turn into a 3/4 ton.

To me, "bragging rights" are not something you say on the internet or at a bar... they are the scratches and dings on the truck. Bragging rights are thousands of odometers with 100k, 200K, or even more on them. IMO, if you don't keep a truck long enough to wear it out or beat them up a little, you aren't fully qualified to speak on what makes a good truck good, or a bad one bad. If you are discussing what type of leather seating it has or the plastic on the door panel - you don't need a truck... you need a luxury SUV or a car.

Closing - I'd much rather see a 1/2 ton truck with a 5-cyl diesel than ANY of the V8 or V10s we have been discussing. Better fuel economy, longer operating life expectancy, better torque, and basically more durable (and less weight). I'm to the point I could care less about these HP and Tq ratings that truck builders are throwing at each other. They are all making more than a basic 1/2 ton truck can use at it's designed capability anyways. Does it REALLY matter if one truck can accelerate to 60 pulling a 10,000lb load 1.6 seconds faster than the other?!?! I'd call you a blooming idiot for attempting such accelerations with a load anyways. When pulling a big load safely, you should adjust your acceleration down to keep the engine at max Tq - not max Hp, ease at the shift points so that the tranny does not get "pounded" by discontinuities in torque, and most important - keep the load stable by minimizing the external forces applied to it.

I wish they'd stop or outlaw these goofy commercials where 1/2-ton trucks with 10,000lb boats and loads are pulling out to pass a semi truck going up a mountain, racing through steel gates, or driving towards the edge of a cliff. It promotes impatience, road rage, and it gives people a false sense of invincibility. They can show sh1+ like that, but they can't show a little boy obviously dreaming of a car jump in a Corvette, or a robot contemplating suicide...

<puts soap box away, gets caffeinated drink, and goes back to work>