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Should Shelby replace SVT?

Old Dec 2, 2003 | 09:51 PM
  #1  
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Should Shelby replace SVT?

This from AUTOEXTREMIST:

" After investing ten+ years in establishing "SVT" as their in-house high-performance brand, Ford is cancelling the entire program. Ford will kill the tasty SVT Focus next year and suspend production of other Special Vehicle Team vehicles for the 2005 model year. Ford will then debut new high-performance products in the 2006 model year - led by an all-new Mustang Cobra and F-150 Lightning - which will most likely carry an official Carroll Shelby designation. This dovetails with the announcement made before the SEMA Show that Ford would be bringing back Carroll Shelby - the man (but more specifically the name) - to give luster to their performance products of the future. Lost in the fog of nostalgia fueled by the Ford GT program, apparently, Ford believes trudging out Shelby will immediately lend the kind of cachet to their high-performance entries that they didn't have before. The only thing we see the octogenarian adding to, however, is his bank book - but that would certainly be consistent with Shelby's "M.O." of the past 45 years. The folks down in Dearborn seem to have forgotten Rule No. 1 when dealing with Carroll Shelby (no big surprise, since half of them weren't even born the last time Shelby was hanging around the Glass House) - and that is the simple fact that with Ol' Shel it's always about the money, it always has been about the money, and it always will be about the money."
Old Dec 2, 2003 | 10:40 PM
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I hit the Auto Extremeist often too Charlie, and I am usually in agreement with their stuff, but this is one of the few times I don't think they are quite right.

It's just my opinion, but I'm pretty certain Shelby will be a limited-run nameplate used to differentiate the "better" cars from the base ones. Similar to how Ford uses Eddie Bauer on the trucks from the Excursion, to the Expedition, to the Explorer, F-150, and even the minivans. The name will associate better performance, better styling, and uniqueness for the buyer wanting to be "different" from the regular stuff. It will also bring more $ to the lines using it at minimal cost.

Think about this... with Ford's current financial situation, why would they dissolve the ONE SPECIALTY DEPARTMENT that is bringing in consistent profits and positive publicity for the company? Also, the board just recently approved more developmental spending for SVT, and plans are already underway for the L and '06 Cobra - why risk losing those namesakes given their popularity today?

It just doesn't make sense to me to kill SVT.
(But then again, many big companies are doing things that don't make sense to me today, so it's actually quite possible I guess. )

Last edited by ProudPony; Dec 2, 2003 at 10:42 PM.
Old Dec 2, 2003 | 10:58 PM
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Nobody cares about Carroll Shelby anymore.
Old Dec 2, 2003 | 11:12 PM
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Dodge seemed to come out pretty good with him and the Viper, some of the other projects they had though are where?
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 06:06 AM
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I think SVT has become a bigger name than Shelby with Ford fans.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by SageofKnight
Nobody cares about Carroll Shelby anymore.
You are how old? And are going to buy a $40k-plus car how soon?

Nobody cares about Shelby... except a few folks like these...
hit 1 for $90K
hit 2 for $250k
hit 3 for $75k
hit 4 for $105k
hit 5 for $135k - a real racer too no less.
hit 6 sold for $340k
hit 7 sold for $300k
Here's a handy-dandy list of Shelby sales accross Barrett-Jackson's auto blocks ALONE... Linky .

Shelby has been independent, as well as with Ford, Dodge, Olds, and numerous other companies. The guy is a living legend, and to his credit he has done some incredible things with cars - things that are not likely to ever be done again.

As a person who is passionate about cars in general (both new and old), I admire the man's work, and I aspire to own some of his creations. Not only are they fun to drive, but they have proven to be lucrative investments as well. Once I have had an opportunity to lay-hands on a black 2006 Mustang Shelby GT-500, I will likely lay pen-to-paper, then proceed to lay rubber on the way to my garage.

No flames intended here dude, but to say "nobody cares about Carroll Shelby anymore" is a bit narrow minded. Maybe you don't care about him and that's 100% totally cool and OK, but there are tens-of-thousands of racers, collectors, and enthusiasts who care VERY MUCH about the guy and his creations old-and-new, and these folks are willing to lay down $thou$and$ to show they do care what he's making. So I'd be a little more judgemental before I go posting broad comments like that. Besides, ANY attention we can bring to ponycars/sportscars can only benefit the hobby and sport as a whole, helping bring back a great Camaro and maybe even a Mopar player or two! It takes good competition to turn plain cars into legends.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 07:39 AM
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I think it would be interesting for Shelby to do the Mustangs... but not really the Lightning or other Ford's...
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Darth Xed
I think it would be interesting for Shelby to do the Mustangs... but not really the Lightning or other Ford's...
I'm with you. I don't think there's any fear of Shelby putting his name on the trucks anyhow. But anything car-based is fair game.

The Mustang will be an obvious hit, the Focus and Five-Hundred are also pretty much safe bets too IMO. Again, I think it will kind-of emulate what the SS is to Chevy cars right now.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by ProudPony
I'm with you. I don't think there's any fear of Shelby putting his name on the trucks anyhow. But anything car-based is fair game.

The Mustang will be an obvious hit, the Focus and Five-Hundred are also pretty much safe bets too IMO. Again, I think it will kind-of emulate what the SS is to Chevy cars right now.
I also feel if Shelby comes back into the Mustang game, they should go all the way...

Nominclature should be GT350, GT500, GT500KR, etc... hell, even do a special rental version for Hertz again... GT350H...
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Darth Xed
I also feel if Shelby comes back into the Mustang game, they should go all the way...

Nominclature should be GT350, GT500, GT500KR, etc... hell, even do a special rental version for Hertz again... GT350H...
You get a double - for your knowledge of intimate Mustang history.

I am IMPRESSED!

But bear in mind - "Shelby" didn't mean that it was the best performing Mustang accross the board. From 1967 to 1970, you could get a GT-350 with a 289(in 1967) or 302(1968) or 351W(1696-1970) in convertible trim, loaded with PS, AC, leather, console(s), and oodles more fancy trim stuff. You could also buy a Mustang straight from ford with 390-4v, 428CJ, 428SCJ, Mach 1's, Boss 429's, Boss 302's and the like - all of which could outperform the Shelby entry. Honestly, the GT500 in 1969 was basically a Mach 1 with a 428CJ, fancy trim and interior appointments, some scoops, wheels, and some fiberglass body panels.

As we have discussed in here before with the GTO, Z28/SS debate, and so on, time tends to warp the truth. What were great performers or above-average cars 35 years ago have become legends and untouchables in todays memories and folklore. I think there's plenty of room for a "historically-correct" Shelby Mustang amongst the current offerings.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 09:21 AM
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Let's hope Ford navigates this issue correctly.

I'd hate to see Shelby ending up replacing SVT. SVT has a fully developed performance image and following now....I wouldn't want to see them flush it all down the crapper.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't like Shelby's. I have a soft spot for GT350's.....especially GT350R. When I bought my new '84 Omni GLH...I thought it was a screaming performance bargain.....and I wasn't shy about telling those who would know...that it was a car developed by Carroll Shelby.

Shelby has alot to offer Ford ...image wise.

I just hope that Ford doesn't end up screwing the pooch...and canabalize SVT in order to use the Shelby name.

BTW....it is rumored that SVT will have three vehicles in '06/'07.

For sure Mustang and Lightning...any guesses on the third?
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 11:44 AM
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I'm with Pony on this one. Carroll Shelby is a legend in motorsports. However today's younger generation doesn't have the same history with the Shelby name as many of us. If you look at the Mustang's history, in the 60's there was the run-of-the-mill everyday Mustang, and then there was the GT. Beyond that the Shelby and and beyond that the ultimate Mustang, the Shelby GT 500 KR (King of the Road). I was fortunate enough growing up to have a neighbor who owned a '68 Shelby GT 500 KR convertible. (Talk about intimidating Musclecars...)

Fast forward to today. Ford has built SVT up as its performance group. If the Shelby name is once again going to be synonymous with Ford (remember the Dodge Shelbys? ) then it should be in a limited edition special package, and not an everyday SVT vehicle. (Kind of like the Rousch cars, but less common than the Harley Davidson trucks.) However, if Shelby wants to mass market his name before he passes on, heck more power to him, because he's earned it.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by jg95z28
I'm with Pony on this one. Carroll Shelby is a legend in motorsports. However today's younger generation doesn't have the same history with the Shelby name as many of us. If you look at the Mustang's history, in the 60's there was the run-of-the-mill everyday Mustang, and then there was the GT. Beyond that the Shelby and and beyond that the ultimate Mustang, the Shelby GT 500 KR (King of the Road). I was fortunate enough growing up to have a neighbor who owned a '68 Shelby GT 500 KR convertible. (Talk about intimidating Musclecars...)

Fast forward to today. Ford has built SVT up as its performance group. If the Shelby name is once again going to be synonymous with Ford (remember the Dodge Shelbys? ) then it should be in a limited edition special package, and not an everyday SVT vehicle. (Kind of like the Rousch cars, but less common than the Harley Davidson trucks.) However, if Shelby wants to mass market his name before he passes on, heck more power to him, because he's earned it.
As a quick side-bar here -
Did any of you guys in here know that Carroll Shelby literally rushed to secure the rights to the "KR - King of the Road" moniker as a slap to the rear of Team Corvette? There was a Vette being developed for '69 and Shelby found out they were going to call it the KR. He had his team and Ford execs get the term legally secured in expedient fashion, and reserved it's use for the "new" engine coming mid-year for the 1968 GT500. So it was literally "stolen" from GM!!!

To finish, Shelby was already making the 1968 GT500 with the "somewhat" new 428PI (Police Interceptor) engines ("new" over the previous 390 and 427 engines of 1967 - same block though). Early 68's were just called "GT500"s like in 1967. Tasca Ford in the northeast had developed their own version of the 428 by swapping parts with the 427, 428, and 390 FE-blocks, and found a killer combo that was outgunning the 428PI on the tracks. Tasca called it the 428 Cobra Jet. When Ford's own factory-backed cars were getting beat by dealer-sponsored cars, something had to change. Ford took delivery of Bob Tasca's engine and began to produce it to spec as the new 428CJ. When Shelby started taking delivery of the new 428CJ engines to replace the 428PI, they changed the name on the car to the GT500KR . So the KR's were only made for a half model year, making them very rare indeed. The same 428cj was available in '69 in everything from the base trim Mustang coupe to the Mach 1 to the Shelby, to Torino's, Cougars, Talladegas, Cyclones, Rancheros - just about any medium or full sized car could get the R-code 428CJ engine.
Here's how the GT500 production broke down in 1968...
GT500 FASTBACK 1,140
GT500 CONVERTIBLE 402
GT500KR FASTBACK 933
GT500KR CONVERTIBLE 318

Sorry for the ramble...
Just thought some GM guys would be interested in knowing why and where the "KR" actually came from. Again, small world, huh?
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 01:13 PM
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Thanks. I actually knew some of that, but not the whole story. Me and my buddy who's dad owned the KR convertible often tried to guess what he paid for it, but he'd never tell us. My buddy was a Camaro guy like me, but his dad was into Ford in a big way. Aside from the KR, he had three Model A's (a truck, a sedan and a vintage racer) and a 56 Ford F-100. It was always fun hanging out at my buddy's house as a teenager.
Old Dec 3, 2003 | 01:44 PM
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"Each and every Series 1 that leaves that factory caries the ZMax performance system"

I still can't get over that!

But, past aside, hopefully we'll see a good Shelby Mustang.

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