Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Originally Posted by Gord's Green Z28
Why should I pay $300 for the factory CD option when I can get a better performing aftermarket CD player for cheaper? I never use tilt or cruise.
And cruise would be cheaper if all cars had them (why make 2 different steering colums?), plus it helps resale.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
I agree with the others that have said there should be a more barebones car...
Up here you could get an '05 Cavy for $12,000cdn. That price gave you a CD player, tilt, cruise, A/C & a full guage cluster.
Strip all those "standard options" from the car & you could EASILY have a sub $10,000 car. Granted GM had no problems selling these cars at 12k but just imagine how many more they coulda sold at $9999
But nooo, they couldn't delete the radio (the most commonly replaced "option") cause of their stupid data bus system
Up here you could get an '05 Cavy for $12,000cdn. That price gave you a CD player, tilt, cruise, A/C & a full guage cluster.
Strip all those "standard options" from the car & you could EASILY have a sub $10,000 car. Granted GM had no problems selling these cars at 12k but just imagine how many more they coulda sold at $9999
But nooo, they couldn't delete the radio (the most commonly replaced "option") cause of their stupid data bus system
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
I can't believe they offer cars without power steering in this day and age.
My dad's 2004 Tacoma had for options styled steel wheels, floor mats, clock and A/C rolled into one package. Standard was AM/FM Cassette, carpet, PS, PB, automatic light turn off so you don't run down the battery, delayed dome light, and interior adjustments for the mirrors. Toyota really should make a tach standard. I hate driving that thing(5 speed) without a tach. And they really need to make their base bench reclinable.
I think strippers have their place in the sub $15,000 throw away car catergory that includes Aveos, Hynduias, Kias, Echos, etc. If a car has a base price of more than $15,000 then I think stuff like CD, PW, PDL, A/C, Cruise, tilt, etc. should be standard.
My dad's 2004 Tacoma had for options styled steel wheels, floor mats, clock and A/C rolled into one package. Standard was AM/FM Cassette, carpet, PS, PB, automatic light turn off so you don't run down the battery, delayed dome light, and interior adjustments for the mirrors. Toyota really should make a tach standard. I hate driving that thing(5 speed) without a tach. And they really need to make their base bench reclinable.
I think strippers have their place in the sub $15,000 throw away car catergory that includes Aveos, Hynduias, Kias, Echos, etc. If a car has a base price of more than $15,000 then I think stuff like CD, PW, PDL, A/C, Cruise, tilt, etc. should be standard.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
I love the idea of bare bones cars. But then again I like to idea of getting rid of packages and making each option independent. Why can't you buy the car you want with the more powerful engine, but minus the gizmos. Delete the nice wheels, automatic this and that, get rid of the ugly ground effects and you've got my kind of car. I know it eats into profits, but in reality it doesn't cost the automaker anything, because so few people are going to buy it. Just think Mustang GTS, not many sold, but they're kind of cool, and from a racer standpoint a great place to start.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
These replies are very interesting. If everyone here that said they want to see more bare-bones cars and actually put down the money to buy the car with nothing on it, you'd still only comprise 0.1% of the car-buying public as a whole, and that might be generous.
I don't think car companies have "forced" options on us over the years, unless you're talking about the options groups where to get the MP3 player you also have to take heated seats with it or something like that. If new features and new technology weren't usually desireable, these manufacturers wouldn't be making so much money off the fully loaded cars....
I don't think car companies have "forced" options on us over the years, unless you're talking about the options groups where to get the MP3 player you also have to take heated seats with it or something like that. If new features and new technology weren't usually desireable, these manufacturers wouldn't be making so much money off the fully loaded cars....
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
I think that some things, that drive down costs, should be standard. Stuff like cruise, power windows, door locks, ABS. Onstar, traction control, heated seats should be standard on higher tier brands, Buick and Caddy, but not on volume brands, Chevy or Pontiac.
If it makes ALL cars cost less to have it why make it an option?
If it makes ALL cars cost less to have it why make it an option?
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
IMO, the only vehicles that should comes in "stripper" (
) form are pickup trucks.... simply for the reason that most small to large companies would want a decontented work truck available to them....
) form are pickup trucks.... simply for the reason that most small to large companies would want a decontented work truck available to them....
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Hell I chose manual crank windows, a 5 speed stick, and manual locks on purpose when I got my last vehicle. Reasons below:
Power Windows: Every vehicle that I've ever owned or my family has owned in the last 20 years with Power windows has had some kinda PITA power window problem. Crank windows, though not as pretty have rarely given us problems.
Power locks: Same reason as above. Little electrical gremlins are a PITA. I like my manual locks and windows. They dont let me down like electric ones have.
Manual/standard transmissions: I hate, loathe, despise, and seeth with hatred when I think about or drive an automatic transmission. Shoddy factory shift points, the delay before the vehicle moves, and the inherent and EXPENSIVE problems an auto eventually experiences will keep me driving a stick until the day I die, or I cant shift anymore due to some form of physical ailment. At that point I might as well quit driving anyways.
Shifting a stick in this country is becoming a lost art IMHO. More people should try it and find the fun in driving a vehicle again.
The number 1 reason why I havnt bought a fullsize GM truck yet is because they dont offer a stick option with their V8's.
If I had the money I'd have a duramax with a stick but thats the only fullsize option they have that appeals to me and is to danged expensive. Other GM vehicles as well I wont buy or drive because of a lack of a stick.
I'll patiently wait the return of a 2+2 Sports coupe from GM, but until then, I'll enjoy my S-10 and its stick, manual locks, and manual windows.
Im sure that many dont agree with me but its how I like my vehicles. I like to keep it simple and Im not one that needs all the fluff and crap that tacks on extra money and extra headaches down the road with a vehicle.
Power Windows: Every vehicle that I've ever owned or my family has owned in the last 20 years with Power windows has had some kinda PITA power window problem. Crank windows, though not as pretty have rarely given us problems.
Power locks: Same reason as above. Little electrical gremlins are a PITA. I like my manual locks and windows. They dont let me down like electric ones have.
Manual/standard transmissions: I hate, loathe, despise, and seeth with hatred when I think about or drive an automatic transmission. Shoddy factory shift points, the delay before the vehicle moves, and the inherent and EXPENSIVE problems an auto eventually experiences will keep me driving a stick until the day I die, or I cant shift anymore due to some form of physical ailment. At that point I might as well quit driving anyways.
Shifting a stick in this country is becoming a lost art IMHO. More people should try it and find the fun in driving a vehicle again.
The number 1 reason why I havnt bought a fullsize GM truck yet is because they dont offer a stick option with their V8's.
If I had the money I'd have a duramax with a stick but thats the only fullsize option they have that appeals to me and is to danged expensive. Other GM vehicles as well I wont buy or drive because of a lack of a stick.
I'll patiently wait the return of a 2+2 Sports coupe from GM, but until then, I'll enjoy my S-10 and its stick, manual locks, and manual windows.
Im sure that many dont agree with me but its how I like my vehicles. I like to keep it simple and Im not one that needs all the fluff and crap that tacks on extra money and extra headaches down the road with a vehicle.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
I like having the option of barebones cars. As someone said already, when you make all this stuff standard - pl, pw, a/c, etc - the price easily goes up by 4g. That's the difference between affording and not affording a car for many people.
As I said in another thread, stripped was DEFINITELY the way to go with Camaro's IMO. First of all, it was in its least equipped form that the Z/28 truly seemed a performance bargain - my dad paid $22,000 and change for a '99. Second of all, even with all the optional equipment, the Camaro felt as cheap if not cheaper on the inside (ie: look at the switches they used for the pw - lol!). Then there was the weight factor. And finally, less power options means less things that break. That sounds old fashioned I know, but with the exception of my '00 GP, every single car we've had with pw, including a C5, ended up going to the dealer with a trash bag taped up to keep out water.
I also like having a car start with no standard features because I can then add the ones I want.
I for one, was very pleased to find that the Solstice can be ordered bargain basement w/ manual everything. I would add an LSD, foglamps, and ABS.
As I said in another thread, stripped was DEFINITELY the way to go with Camaro's IMO. First of all, it was in its least equipped form that the Z/28 truly seemed a performance bargain - my dad paid $22,000 and change for a '99. Second of all, even with all the optional equipment, the Camaro felt as cheap if not cheaper on the inside (ie: look at the switches they used for the pw - lol!). Then there was the weight factor. And finally, less power options means less things that break. That sounds old fashioned I know, but with the exception of my '00 GP, every single car we've had with pw, including a C5, ended up going to the dealer with a trash bag taped up to keep out water.
I also like having a car start with no standard features because I can then add the ones I want.
I for one, was very pleased to find that the Solstice can be ordered bargain basement w/ manual everything. I would add an LSD, foglamps, and ABS.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Originally Posted by dav305z
I like having the option of barebones cars. As someone said already, when you make all this stuff standard - pl, pw, a/c, etc - the price easily goes up by 4g. That's the difference between affording and not affording a car for many people.
As I said in another thread, stripped was DEFINITELY the way to go with Camaro's IMO. First of all, it was in its least equipped form that the Z/28 truly seemed a performance bargain - my dad paid $22,000 and change for a '99. Second of all, even with all the optional equipment, the Camaro felt as cheap if not cheaper on the inside (ie: look at the switches they used for the pw - lol!). Then there was the weight factor. And finally, less power options means less things that break. That sounds old fashioned I know, but with the exception of my '00 GP, every single car we've had with pw, including a C5, ended up going to the dealer with a trash bag taped up to keep out water.
I also like having a car start with no standard features because I can then add the ones I want.
I for one, was very pleased to find that the Solstice can be ordered bargain basement w/ manual everything. I would add an LSD, foglamps, and ABS.
As I said in another thread, stripped was DEFINITELY the way to go with Camaro's IMO. First of all, it was in its least equipped form that the Z/28 truly seemed a performance bargain - my dad paid $22,000 and change for a '99. Second of all, even with all the optional equipment, the Camaro felt as cheap if not cheaper on the inside (ie: look at the switches they used for the pw - lol!). Then there was the weight factor. And finally, less power options means less things that break. That sounds old fashioned I know, but with the exception of my '00 GP, every single car we've had with pw, including a C5, ended up going to the dealer with a trash bag taped up to keep out water.
I also like having a car start with no standard features because I can then add the ones I want.
I for one, was very pleased to find that the Solstice can be ordered bargain basement w/ manual everything. I would add an LSD, foglamps, and ABS.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Originally Posted by mr00jimbo
...and a lot of cars still have rear drums. 

The rule of thumb is that the front brakes provide 75-85% of your braking (think weight transfer... loaded trucks rely on the rear brakes more than cars do...). Because the rears encounter very much reduced heat loads, a drum is just fine and a good place to save money. Discs are more expensive, require more maintenance, and tend to wear out faster than drums anyway. Furthermore, it is much easier to integrate the parking brake system into a drum brake than a disc brake.
Last edited by PacerX; Jul 12, 2005 at 10:16 AM.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Originally Posted by PacerX
There's nothing wrong with rear drums on the 90% of the cars out there that are used as appliances.
The rule of thumb is that the front brakes provide 75-85% of your braking (think weight transfer... loaded trucks rely on the rear brakes more than cars do...). Because the rears encounter very much reduced heat loads, a drum is just fine and a good place to save money. Discs are more expensive, require more maintenance, and tend to wear out faster than drums anyway. Furthermore, it is much easier to integrate the parking brake system into a drum brake than a disc brake.
The rule of thumb is that the front brakes provide 75-85% of your braking (think weight transfer... loaded trucks rely on the rear brakes more than cars do...). Because the rears encounter very much reduced heat loads, a drum is just fine and a good place to save money. Discs are more expensive, require more maintenance, and tend to wear out faster than drums anyway. Furthermore, it is much easier to integrate the parking brake system into a drum brake than a disc brake.
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
Strippers don't sell. When I used to stock Sunfires (there was a time...), even Sunfire owners liked PW and PL. And for the $275 they cost, why WOULDN'T I stock the cars with them?
Now, its cheaper to engineer all the crap in. I can't imagine owning a car these days with no PW and no PL. Hell, I even want a moonroof!
Now, its cheaper to engineer all the crap in. I can't imagine owning a car these days with no PW and no PL. Hell, I even want a moonroof!
Re: Should bare-bones cars become obsolete?
No I don't think that they should .It was probably was one of the reasons why the 2nd and 3rd gens sold so well,having a base model ,or next to bare bones cars.


