Darth Xed

I really dont get what's so great about it.

It is NOT even close to driving a true manual... it's not really "fun" to drive in the semi-manual mode either.

Having had two vehicles with these transmissions, first the Grand Prix GXP with the paddle shifters, and now the SRX with the "stick" shifter... I have to say I 100% perfer the "stick" type shifter. The paddles are just odd, not to mention out-of place while steering. The "stick" type is at least always where it is supposed to be.

Anyway, how much cost does this add to the transmission and the car overall? Does anyone actually use this? Just seems like a big waste.

It's probably one of those things that few people actually use, but lots of people like to beat their chest and say they have it or something, so it's probably becoming almost a requirement on any new automatic transmission.

notgetleft

Besides the cost of the mechanism itself (paddles or extra gate to shifter), i'd say it add nothing to the cost of the actual transmission itself. All it's doing is sending a signal to the TCM to upshift, down****, or hold, over riding the normal programmed shift. Ok, so maybe it costs 3 lines of code in the software too.

I agree it's pretty pointless and no fun. Every one i've driven has been pretty lazy about shift timing anyway, but then again, i had a reasonably well built 700r4 in my last camaro and got used to very positive and quick upshifts there.

Darth Xed

Interesting. If there is little cost involved... at least material cost, and potentially developmental cost, I suppose there is basically no reason not to do it then... one more thing you can advertise, I suppose.

notgetleft

Exactly why everything today has it. It's a marketing thing, a 'sporty' buzzword to throw in a feature list.

JeremyNYR

If they actually attracted buyers that perfer a manual transmission, they would be a very smart move for manufacturers. You would please everyone with one tranny. However, I think only a very very small percentage of people that want a manual tranny consider them to be an acceptable alternative.

I don't think they really add much to the driving experience either. I think it's more of a feature that buyers think they'll enjoy when looking at a car. Most people likely play with it for a few weeks and then get bored of it and barely ever touch it again.

Aaron91RS

I think they are retarded as well.
If I have an automatic I don't want to waste time remembering to shift up and down on the way to work. And if I want to actually bang gears and chirp tires, I'd need a real manual.

Just a fad a bunch of stupid people like. If it sells cars what the hell go for it.

Chrisz24

Does their need to be any changes? (extra clutches) so it's not like a conventional transmission and your just downshifting?

I agree, only people who cant drive stick are impressed with "tiptronic" type transmissions, they are slow to react and I find it amazing that when I sold cars-everyone wanted the option, but almost no one used it!

Our TSX has it, I use it sometimes when we're driving big hills to hold gears and such, maybe to merge, but the auto does that part so well itself their is little point.

poSSum

From an autocross perspective I believe a properly executed manumatic that rev matches and locks the converter would be a good thing. I've yet to drive one so I have no opinion otherwise ... though I do enjoy rowing the gears in normal driving.

PacerX

Hmmmm...

Don't know about autocrossing, but with relatively stock cars in other forms of racing, you're almost always better off letting the transmission do the shifting.

Oh, and one other thing...

The GM systems are usually glorified "upshift interrupt" systems. Basically an automatic that waits for you to tell it to shift... to a point...

Screw it up, and the transmission will tell you to buzz off and shift itself anyway.


Other manufacturers (generally on REALLY expensive cars), will use a manual-type transimission (i.e. it has a real clutch in it and actuates the shift forks itself...). Unfortunately, they tend to grenade with frightening regularity.

JakeRobb

All of the transmissions in the question have automatic modes -- if you leave the paddles alone, the car will work exactly like a traditional automatic.

The value of a "manumatic" (a traditional automatic transmission with a control system that lets the driver dictate or influence when to shift) is not going to replace the added fun-factor of driving a traditional manual. The best it can do is give you control over what gear you're in, which is typically only helpful in an autocross or road racing setting.

For example, a regular automatic will upshift while you're braking for a turn, which means that when you exit the turn, you're going to be in a higher-than-ideal gear. At that time, with a traditional automatic, you mash the gas, wait a second or so for it to downshift, and then you can get the car accelerating again. With a manumatic, you can tell it to hold gears while you're braking, and you can even have it downshift while you slow down, providing a limited amount of engine braking, and leaving you in the ideal gear for acceleration as soon as you're ready to hit the gas -- not a second later.

jg95z28

True story.

When purchasing my 95 Z/28 my primary buying requirement was a M6. After test driving both a M6 and a A4 with traction control (the dealership was located in an area where the salesman allowed me to have a more 'spirited' test drive) I decided on the A4 because I it shifted smoother and quicker than the M6, even though they would have given me a better deal on the M6. (Ok the fact that it was a used black convertible and I felt like Batman driving it may have also influenced me a little as well.)

Back in the day my buddy with a '80 Z/28 swapped in a B&M ratchet shifter. Made for a much spirited drive. (In the early 80's you couldn't order a M4 in Z/28s in California. )

I'm pretty much convinced now that for a car I will drive and use, a A6 with paddles is the best setup for me. (It means my wife can drive it as well.) Although I can drive a stick, I live in a hilly area with a lot of traffic making having a clutch on a regular basis suck!

Marc 85Z28

The feature is extremely useful when driving over mountains. The only other time it's serves any real purpose is in poor weather conditions like ice or snow.

Threxx

It really depends on the car.

My Lexus had push button controls on the steering wheel for its 5 speed auto but it was pointless. The response time was at least a half a second from the time I pushed it to the time it was actually fully engaged in the next gear, the shifts weren't any more firm or direct that standard automatic shifting, it would override my gear selection if it felt I wasn't at the proper rpm/speed/throttle position for that gear selection, it wouldn't let me choose second gear manually until the motor was partially warm, and it wouldn't let me choose first gear EVER.

My 335i's 6-speed auto on the other hand is the complete opposite. In sport mode using the paddle shifters is an impressively direct experience... very positive shifts with the torque converter left locked effectively 100% of the time so it feels more like a manual transmission, and short of stalling out the motor it will select any gear I tell it it at any time. Also the shifts are very quick... probably around 1 tenth of a second from the time I push the paddle to the time it's in the next gear. It's very useful in any performance driving situation where I want to hold gears, downshift, control my shift points, etc.

And then you get into things like Audi's DSG which of course is like an automatically shifted manual that still affords manual control on demand... those things are awesome... definitely don't knock it until you've driven it.

97QuasarBlue3.8

Are you talking about a DSG/SMG style transmission that Audi, VW and BMW use?

I wouldn't say a Volkswagen GLI or GTI is an "expensive" car ($24k), but it does use a DSG transmission. It's also available in the entry-level Audi A3.

The DSG/SMG operation is an "automated manual" -- it has no torque converter. It spins up the next gear so when the car senses it's time to shift, there is a seamless, near-instantaneous, perfectly-rev-matched shift using an actuated clutch.

The first time you drive one, you'll think it's a toy. There is no lag, and there's no "feel" of it going into the next gear--the RPM's drop in a flash, and the car just pulls harder.

And, believe it or not, there is a point to having one. They're quicker than their manual transmission counterparts. If you hate clutching and shifting in traffic, you let the DSG run its shift program in "D". If you want to spice it up, hold gears, and really go for that *snap* effect, you switch it over to manual and use the paddles.

There's also "launch control" - a factory program that allows you to power-brake the vehicle to 3krpm and let off the brake. It will engage the clutch at the RPM you have selected for an instantaneous launch. It won't guarantee that you'll hook up with the road, so choose carefully.

Aaron91RS

I can pull the shifter out of OD in to D and have it manually downshift or not upshift also
Also manual valve body if your really bored on any car in the last 30 years is pretty much the same thing.

Let's be honest it's nothing more then a pretty option for some smuck who couldn't shift a manual if his life depended on it because he is barely smart enough to put gas in his car.
This way with a paddle shift he feels like a man in his race car.
It's perception and it's working.

In a way it's the same type of perception I got from a vtec ricer one time who walked over to peer in my car window at a gas station, then yelled back to his friends 'oh it's just an auto it's slow'
ya ignore the 406 behind the curtain.