They should rename the division Opel while they are at it. If they want to attract the euro buyers, why not just do it with Euro GM cars?

Cadillac = Bling Bling high dollar lux
Buick = conservative large car mid lux (Lexus)
Opel = sporty mid lux (acura/audi/vw)
Pontiac = sporty value (BMW at Chevy price)
Chevy = mainstream GM
GMC = lux and niche trucks (and rebadges )

 

Because that would be too easy.

Since it was brought up, can someone explain to me how exactly VW is "upscale"?

2004 GTI MSRP: $19,250 - $22,070
2005 Golf MSRP: $15,580 - $20,655
2005 Jetta MSRP: $17,430 - $25,045
2004 New Beetle MSRP: $16,330 - $25,995
2005 Passat MSRP: $21,780 - $41,160
2005 Phaeton MSRP: $64,600 - $96,100 (the oddball)
2004 R32 MSRP: $29,100
2005 Toureg MSRP: $35,900 - $58,490

Wow, looking at these numbers from Edmunds, it would seem that VW is at least more expensive than Pontiac. Will Saturn get a $100,000 car too?

 

Despite what everyone here thinks, I think its a good move. If the buzz on these cars are right, this wont be such a huge surprise.

I explained this before...What was Saturn designed to do? Take on the small 4cyl, FWD Honda's, Toyota's and Nissans that were taking up the econo-box market.
Now, Toyota and Honda are considered "upscale" by some. Driving a Camry now means, to some people, that you made it to where driving an Impala or Taurus means that you settled on it because of incentives and cause it was cheap.
anyway...
Now that Saturn's competition has gone "up scale," why cant Saturn? Is there a law that says they cant? Is it really that stupid, or are you just too ignorant to understand that brands can change over time.
Dont think that Saturn is gunna go upscale with cars like the Ion, Vue and Relay. This is going to be an ALL new Saturn.

 

See this doesen't work for me partly because the market segments GM would be shooting for are already quite ill defined. If you but Benz/Bimmer at spot 1, and Lexus/Infiniti at spot 2 acura and audi are gonna be problematic because their lines are fuzzy.
The caddys are great and yeah id consider them over a BMW but there is what five of them, compared to Benz five or eight models in each of those catergories???
I'm just saying if you fight the champ you have to knock him out, and I don't see them doing that... to any of the champs. Especially when they can't do it withouht alieanating their enthusiast as proven here, and a monumental deployment of resources;

 

As the most vocal defendant here of Oldsmobile and the great cars it sold from 1999 through 2002 or so (when the axe started falling on models), I have to say...

Olds should still be here, Buick should be dead, and Saturn should be Scion. Period. Every time I see an Alero or an Aurora (2 of my favorite cars GM has put out over the last 10 years), I think of what could have been...

Go sit in an Alero and go sit in ANY other car designed in 1999, and the quality of the design will impress you. Aleros may be nothing more than cheap used cars now, but when they debuted, they were a helluva car. What could have been...

 

That's screwed up!! First they kill off Oldsmobile, a brand with heritage out the ****. THEN, they give Olds' old position to F-ing SATURN!!!!!! GM's econobox wing!!! It seems to me GM is trying to **** off enthusiasts!!!

Saturn does not equal luxury performance (or whatever they're calling it)!!!

 

I don't see what you guys have your panties in a twist about? Most of the general public percieves "Saturn" as a more quality brand anyway. Hell, most people don't even know its a part of GM! You guys shouldn't always look from the inside-out. This is a very good thing their doing here, should catch them a lot more market share for the division.
99.99% of new car buyers don't even know what Opel is.

I hope your not actually kidding yourself into thinking that Pontiac even comes close to BMW in any way shape or form at a Chevy price. Same thing with Buick compared to Lexus. Two COMPLETELY different worlds right now. Maybe in 5 or 6 years if GM keeps up the momentum...but right now....Bwahahaha

 

The current GTO is very close to BMW quality, M3 @ Camaro SS price.

As a whole BMW will never be on the same page as BMW since they sell cheaper cars, maybe I should have said "Pontiac = the sub $32K BMW"

 

I don't know about this statement... I think this is really reaching...

 

I mostly agree with this.

The Korean brands have replaced the Japanese in the econo market. Chevy is covering that with the Daewoo stuff.

 

GM should have ditched Saturn and put it's investment into Oldsmobile. Saturn a premium brand? Good luck I guess.

 

Saturnd doesnt equal luxury performance NOW....but look at Toyota and Honda in the late 80's, early 90's. Are they luxury cars? Hell, look at the mid 90's...are they still "luxury" cars?
Now look at Toyota and Honda. They ARE considerd to some people a higher class of car. You have "made it" if you drive a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, but if you drive a domestic offering, you much not have that much, or just settled on the car because of incentives.

Everyone needs to stop putting car companies in a box. Think OUTSIDE the box would you? Saturn does NOT have to be a bunch of econo boxes anymore, but more of a direct import fighter, which is exactly what Saturn has been. This allows for Chevy to not step on Saturns toes.

 

Still don't buy this.

What about Toyota or Honda says anything different than Chevy or Ford or Dodge?

While you'll hear the "quality" arguement over and over, I've never ever heard a "prestiege of owning a Toyota" arguement...

 

Yes the japs have gained a lot of credit in past years, but hte arguement hear is not only that that saturn is going upscale. Its that GM had a decent upscale brand to begin with.

Which is more efficient a good add campaign and reworking of resources at oldsmobile to produce a higher quality product. Or completely uprooting a brand name and moving it to a market segments far removed from its original one.

 

Amen.

Kill off Olds....

Then give us another Olds, but call it Saturn.

I got an idea... Kill Saturn and save us all the trouble. Meanwhile, give us better Chevrolets and Pontiacs instead.