Rumor Of The Day: GM To Rebadge Saab 9-5?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Rumor Of The Day: GM To Rebadge Saab 9-5?
Saabsunited ran a recent piece by Sweden’s Dagensindustrie through Google Translate, and came out with a possible (and very old-GM) outcome for the new Epsilon II-based Saab 9-5:
According to Dagens Industri’s sources, GM is planning to use the new Saab 9-5: an own model program, including a future Buick in the U.S.. GM is also in a letter to Saab’s sub-contractors have estimated the time of closure of Saab to five years.
There are sources in Saab Automobile in the Dagens Industri – DI – indicates that GM now see positive opportunities to closure of Saab. By making use of Saab’s technology, tools and production equipment for GM use the new 9-5: an – that would be launched in the spring – to a future Buick in the U.S..
In the GM is also talk of exploiting Saab technology for the production of a new premium car for Opel, “says DI’s sources. It would then be about the reopening of the closed trial with an Opel Senator in Europe.
GM clearly has to do something with the 9-5. The General’s latest global mid-size platform (Epsilon II) has been a sticking point in all the failed Saab rescue deals, as the RenCen has refused to let the architecture fall into the hands of Chinese or Russian firms. Pulling the 9-5 out of the smoldering remains of Saab might keep the platform safe from reverse-engineering, but it also torpedoes any chance of getting real money for the Swedish division. Using Saab’s development of the EpsiII in a different division could help pull a little money out of Saab’s cash whirlpool, but only if there’s a possible use for it.
Which there isn’t. Epsilon II is already represented in nearly all of GM’s brands, especially the 9-5’s rumored inheritor, Buick. In fact Buick will soon be offering two versions of the platform, the LaCrosse and the Opel Insignia-rebadge Regal. With these models sandwiched between the Malibu and Cadillac’s forthcoming EpsiII-based XTS “flagship,” Buick needs another EpsiII sedan like it needs a hole in the head. Opel might be able to add a little volume with a 9-5 rebadge, as its only mid-size offering is the somewhat cramped Insignia, but such a move would only deepen Opel’s identity crisis. On the other hand, Saab has already sunk money into the 9-5’s development. If GM isn’t going to sell it for fear of losing its technological advantage, a rebadge may be the only way to recoup some of that development cost. Old habits can be so easy to fall back into.
According to Dagens Industri’s sources, GM is planning to use the new Saab 9-5: an own model program, including a future Buick in the U.S.. GM is also in a letter to Saab’s sub-contractors have estimated the time of closure of Saab to five years.
There are sources in Saab Automobile in the Dagens Industri – DI – indicates that GM now see positive opportunities to closure of Saab. By making use of Saab’s technology, tools and production equipment for GM use the new 9-5: an – that would be launched in the spring – to a future Buick in the U.S..
In the GM is also talk of exploiting Saab technology for the production of a new premium car for Opel, “says DI’s sources. It would then be about the reopening of the closed trial with an Opel Senator in Europe.
GM clearly has to do something with the 9-5. The General’s latest global mid-size platform (Epsilon II) has been a sticking point in all the failed Saab rescue deals, as the RenCen has refused to let the architecture fall into the hands of Chinese or Russian firms. Pulling the 9-5 out of the smoldering remains of Saab might keep the platform safe from reverse-engineering, but it also torpedoes any chance of getting real money for the Swedish division. Using Saab’s development of the EpsiII in a different division could help pull a little money out of Saab’s cash whirlpool, but only if there’s a possible use for it.
Which there isn’t. Epsilon II is already represented in nearly all of GM’s brands, especially the 9-5’s rumored inheritor, Buick. In fact Buick will soon be offering two versions of the platform, the LaCrosse and the Opel Insignia-rebadge Regal. With these models sandwiched between the Malibu and Cadillac’s forthcoming EpsiII-based XTS “flagship,” Buick needs another EpsiII sedan like it needs a hole in the head. Opel might be able to add a little volume with a 9-5 rebadge, as its only mid-size offering is the somewhat cramped Insignia, but such a move would only deepen Opel’s identity crisis. On the other hand, Saab has already sunk money into the 9-5’s development. If GM isn’t going to sell it for fear of losing its technological advantage, a rebadge may be the only way to recoup some of that development cost. Old habits can be so easy to fall back into.
Link
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 445
From: Livonia, MI
Launched in the spring? I think we would have seen something by now....GM shows us cars like, what, two or three years before they come out? Isn't the 9-5 a full size car? Wouldn't it make sense to call it an Impala instead of giving Buick another rebadge?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,018
Maybe because someone actually spent some time designing them, and they had chances at being nice cars? 
Nothing but love for GM, but everything "good" that Pontiac had (read: Solstice and G8) deserved to be a Chevrolet IMHO.
Nothing but love for GM, but everything "good" that Pontiac had (read: Solstice and G8) deserved to be a Chevrolet IMHO.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Let me tell you right now this story is false.
There are no Saabs (or any other soon-to-be-deseased GM car) that will wind up in any other GM division, especially Buick.
There IS an effort underway to ship a few Pontiac ST GTs over as Chevrolet El Caminos (with the Caprice PPV Front ends), however, that is still only an "effort" by a few people at Chevrolet and Holden. Not enough to register on the radar of probability just yet.
The next gen Holden Caprice, however, is planned to be offered on the retail level (read: you & I) as well as with law enforcement and fleet (read: rentals).
There are no Saabs (or any other soon-to-be-deseased GM car) that will wind up in any other GM division, especially Buick.
There IS an effort underway to ship a few Pontiac ST GTs over as Chevrolet El Caminos (with the Caprice PPV Front ends), however, that is still only an "effort" by a few people at Chevrolet and Holden. Not enough to register on the radar of probability just yet.
The next gen Holden Caprice, however, is planned to be offered on the retail level (read: you & I) as well as with law enforcement and fleet (read: rentals).
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 429
Let me tell you right now this story is false.
There are no Saabs (or any other soon-to-be-deseased GM car) that will wind up in any other GM division, especially Buick.
There IS an effort underway to ship a few Pontiac ST GTs over as Chevrolet El Caminos (with the Caprice PPV Front ends), however, that is still only an "effort" by a few people at Chevrolet and Holden. Not enough to register on the radar of probability just yet.
The next gen Holden Caprice, however, is planned to be offered on the retail level (read: you & I) as well as with law enforcement and fleet (read: rentals).
There are no Saabs (or any other soon-to-be-deseased GM car) that will wind up in any other GM division, especially Buick.
There IS an effort underway to ship a few Pontiac ST GTs over as Chevrolet El Caminos (with the Caprice PPV Front ends), however, that is still only an "effort" by a few people at Chevrolet and Holden. Not enough to register on the radar of probability just yet.
The next gen Holden Caprice, however, is planned to be offered on the retail level (read: you & I) as well as with law enforcement and fleet (read: rentals).
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho....php?p=6142867
So that brings me back to the topic of the post. Basically, I think that GM should import the Ute as a El Camino for the civilian market, and then keep the Caprice as a police only car. Now before, the UTE was gonna be a Pontiac G8 ST because..well Pontiac needed something to sell, it could use the Pontiac bumpers already made for the G8, and it kept it all in the old Buick, Pontiac, GMC distribution channel. Now with the Caprice, Holden will be selling through Chevy sales channels, and they can use the Chevy bumpers designed for the Caprice, and the middle east. It makes production easy because Carpices are always cop cars, and then you can fill in the holes with loaded up El Camino's that will be production limited, and sell at a premium. It would give Chevy something unique that no one else is making, and if you strech it..a VERY fuel efficiant light truck. And plus..it is not a rebadged G8..technically..so it would not be seen as repeating the same mistakes. I think it may also get some Pontiac buyers in the mix.
I am not the biggest El Camino fan in the world..but I really think I would rather be able to buy one of them then the streched wheelbase Carpice.
3. I am likely the El Camino's biggest cheerleader here. It is a vehicle I could most certainly use, & I have written GM already regarding the possibility of the G8 ST as an El Camino, and my willingness (or even practical need) to buy it. The unfortunate truth is that it isn't going to happen at this point, and I don't see it changing in the immediate future. I can see the possibility of GM-NA having GM-Holden make a unique skin of the Ute for sale here as an El Camino and there as a new Ute, but, again, that's doubtful.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Not sure what you needed to be excused for.
You stated the opinion that GM should import the the Ute as a El Camino, a position that I have made obvious over the years that I agree with.
In my post, I also stated that it wasn't likely to happen because the Holden VE and WM line is due to be restyled and updated within a couple of years.
I also just said that there is a small group that is working to get the ST here now that GM leadership is more open to taking risks.
Also said that this doesn't rank high enough on the radar of probability for me to give a percentage on (like I did with the Caprice police car).
The whole thing seems to hinge on if they should wait for the updated VE or send the already done Pontiac ST, although it still has the body of the departed G8 (yes, it IS seen as a rebadged G8). Right now, that latter idea is still swimming against the current.
While we're on the subject, I will now give a civilian version Caprice a 75% chance of happening (remember, I once gave the police Caprice 98%). The issue with the civilian Caprice is GM's paranoia of CAFE.
GM has crunched the numbers, and while the G8 was expected to sell in only modest numbers and have nil impact of CAFE (which is based on sales volume) things change a bit when you are talking about Chevrolet, which things tend to sell at least in double the volume of Pontiac. Add that to the expected swing back to bigger cars as the economy improves, and you can see why GM is a little paranoid. The Caprice would be a volume car.
The incentive to the Caprice is equally forecful. It would be the counterpart to Ford's new Taurus, a large "executive" flagship car. With Holden soon to produce a Hybrid VE & WM (next edition), and Chrysler doing the exact same thing with the next Hemi 300, the incentive for GM to bring the Caprice over gets pretty high.
Hence, my 75% odds.
There is one very intriguing tidbit in all of this.
The Malibu that will be shown in Detroit started out as the replacement for the Impala. Both it's style and larger size started out as the FWD backup to the RWD Impala.
You stated the opinion that GM should import the the Ute as a El Camino, a position that I have made obvious over the years that I agree with.
In my post, I also stated that it wasn't likely to happen because the Holden VE and WM line is due to be restyled and updated within a couple of years.
I also just said that there is a small group that is working to get the ST here now that GM leadership is more open to taking risks.
Also said that this doesn't rank high enough on the radar of probability for me to give a percentage on (like I did with the Caprice police car).
The whole thing seems to hinge on if they should wait for the updated VE or send the already done Pontiac ST, although it still has the body of the departed G8 (yes, it IS seen as a rebadged G8). Right now, that latter idea is still swimming against the current.
While we're on the subject, I will now give a civilian version Caprice a 75% chance of happening (remember, I once gave the police Caprice 98%). The issue with the civilian Caprice is GM's paranoia of CAFE.
GM has crunched the numbers, and while the G8 was expected to sell in only modest numbers and have nil impact of CAFE (which is based on sales volume) things change a bit when you are talking about Chevrolet, which things tend to sell at least in double the volume of Pontiac. Add that to the expected swing back to bigger cars as the economy improves, and you can see why GM is a little paranoid. The Caprice would be a volume car.
The incentive to the Caprice is equally forecful. It would be the counterpart to Ford's new Taurus, a large "executive" flagship car. With Holden soon to produce a Hybrid VE & WM (next edition), and Chrysler doing the exact same thing with the next Hemi 300, the incentive for GM to bring the Caprice over gets pretty high.
Hence, my 75% odds.
There is one very intriguing tidbit in all of this.
The Malibu that will be shown in Detroit started out as the replacement for the Impala. Both it's style and larger size started out as the FWD backup to the RWD Impala.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,801
From: South Bend , IN
That would messed up of Chevys new flagship was a great handling large rwd sedan , while cadillac's new large flagship remained fwd/awd . Given that Chevys impala target should be the fwd/awd Taurus and caddy's target should be the rwd/awd s-class and 7 series .
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
brothaslide
2016+ Camaro News, Sightings, Pictures, and General Discussion
6
Jan 9, 2016 12:11 PM
305fan
Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion
4
Mar 15, 2003 07:27 PM
2K1SunsetSS
Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion
11
Jan 21, 2003 01:19 AM
jrp4uc
Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion
36
Nov 18, 2002 04:34 PM