They have stuff that appeals to me I just cant afford what appeals to me.

 

Hmmm. More control? Like the way the Pontiac dealers totally botched the new GTO? My local dealer wouldn't even let me TOUCH their car, much less sit in it or, God forbid, test drive it. And then, as a final insult, they stuck on a $5,000 "Market Adjustment" sticker. It's a PONTIAC, not a Ferrari! After watching the dust collect on their GTO's for 6 months, they were begging me to test drive one. I wound up purchasing for $9,000 BELOW sticker! I guess I should thank them for their moronic behavior. Pontiac, however, probably wasn't too thrilled.

 

State Francise laws strictly forbid this from happening...........

 

I think there still needs to be a "dealer" structure of sorts... it would be better as a company owned "store" though.

Going strictly to a GMBuyPower.com setup really limits you.

1) How do you test drive?
2) How do you look over any given car?
3) You can't buy one and drive away the same day...
4) How can someone show you how everything works (though a lot of dealers are lacking at this as it is... I remember when I bought my 99 Z28, and five, YES FIVE, people had to come out and figure out how to work the T-Tops... this after I told them all several times that I already knew how to do it. )
5) What happens to the servce department for warranty and other work?

Basically, I think GM needs a brick and mortar retail structure, but a Company Owned setup would be best... of course, like Scott has eluded too... franchise laws and other issues would probably prevent this from ever happening.

 

Roy Roberts announced such an intention a few years ago and the dealers went ballistic. I belive GM would LOVE to do this. Build them overseas and sell them on the internet. Perhaps that explains why they perhaps 'on purpose" continue to lose share. Combining stores greatly reduces legal exposure when the "closings" of franchises occur.

 

Well yes - wat you're describing is what I was envisioning. Of course, it's just a pipedream *sigh*.

 

Pipedream? More like nightmare.

As I'm sure Jim and Jason agree, how would you like to take that car you bought off the internet and have warranty work done by, wait......nobody!

That's right folks, the dealers need customers, but the customers need the dealership in return. You read this correct. Not every dealer is bad to deal with, it is up to you, the customer, to find a dealer that makes you feel comfortable and treats you fairly. If you find that you are getting screwed with, go to another dealer. And as has been mentioned many times before, go to a smaller hometown type dealer for some of the best treatment (in most cases) that you'll find.

The one thing I'll never get over (and I'm sure Jim and Jason know what I'm talking about) is how people feel it's ok to screw the dealer in anyway possible, as if that's ok, but if the dealer does, "Oh oh oh, I don't think so, only I (the customer) can do that" attitude that is all too common place amongst car shoppers.

Here's a helpful hint for free: be educated before you shop for a FAIR deal (Stress the fair), but also realize that the person on the other end has to make a living too. By grinding the salesperson down to dust, you are making a situation worse for yourself (as well, others) in the long run. Just remember, who's getting better service after the sale, a customer who was fair and fun to deal with, or the person who wanted to deal until the salesperson made nearly nothing because of being ground to dust and was determined to make the dealer "stick it"? Look beyond your noses people.

Every person on this board wants to make this a one way street of "let's get the big bad dealer". Why not make a little effort and find a dealer that'll treat you right? They're out there. It's up to you to determine what kind of expirience you want to have before, during, and after the sale.

 

Lew,
I think you have the right ideas. If I ever get out of the business (probably not), I would look you up to purchase from.
Jim

 

You're right! We're gonna shoot 'em all from the Grassy Knoll.........

I don't believe for a minute that GM wants to do this.....nor does any other manufacturer.........

 

Very good post, Lew.......

I've said it at least a million times.......the BEST deal is not always the CHEAPEST deal......there are many good dealers out there......and some bad ones.....and it always amazes me that people keep going back to the bad ones to save $100...............

 

Agree 100%! I bought my last 3 cars from the same salesman/dealership. I researched prices for the cars I wanted, plus my trade-ins, and as long as the dealer was close to my price on both, we had a deal. I only haggled once over the trade-in value, and they gave me what I wanted after finding out my price for my trade. In all instances the salesman searched the area for the exact cars I wanted, so I didn't mind not haggling because of the work he did. Plus the dealer now knows us and treats us well.

 

This is still an enthusiasts board, so I'm surprised how riled up we all get over the opinions of a Buick salesman, however competent and knowledgeable he may be. Every car buying experience that I have been involved with was excruciating. I'm sure that there are exceptions, but my experience has been that car salesmen have earned their stereotype.

My point is, who on here really cares that much about the actual buying experience if you are not buying a car that you can enjoy. It's all about the product to me. If GM had 75% market share and their stock price went through the roof, I still wouldn't give them a second look if all that they sold were Buicks.

 

What difference does Jim's selling of Buicks make? He sells Chevrolets too, does that make him more "worthy" to you? It makes no difference what a person sells.

Hell, I sell Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, and Olds (before the phase out). Does this make me the ring master of all enthusiast boards? Ah, not quite.

Thank you, Jim, for the kind words also.
Time to search for a dealer that will give you the service you desire. If it still seems that "everyone is out to get you", you may want to look in the mirror and see it from a different perspective.

Hey, no cheap shots at Buick. They build great comfortable mid-lux cars with moderate power. Nothing wrong with that. Plus, if GM had 75% market share with Buick alone, I'd sure think there'd be something you'd like, eh?

 

Hmmm....

Let's talk about some good dealership experiences I've had:

Lunghamer Chevrolet, Waterford Michigan:
Went on a search for the car I was looking for. Found it about 400 miles away, shipped it in. Took care of my Camaro on any further warranty issues, after I was well and truly screwed by John Bowman Chevrolet on a warranty claim (that's still unresolved, but the car has been modified to the point that it's a nuisance more than a big issue - but trust me, GM and Bowman treated me and others VERY, VERY badly). Nice atmosphere, good salesman (now a friend of mine). The high profit car car I brought from them that they went through all that effort to find for me?

A stripped Cavalier, bought on GMS.


ABC Harley-Davidson, Waterford Michigan:
Gave a good deal on my wife's latest bike, and a great deal on her trade-in. The salesman in particular is a very calm, very friendly individual who is really, really busy... mostly because he's attentive. He'll go to war with the service or parts departments if they start messing with the customers.



Wheels USA, Oxford Michigan:
I bought the Hayabusa there. Nick, the salesman, was very professional and good to deal with. Gave me his best price, said it was his best price, I checked up on it and it was highly competitive - so I bought the bike. Sold me the ONLY add-on coverage I have ever found to be worthwhile, which was a $100 lifetime of the bike tire protection warranty (getting a flat tire on a motorcycle is a BIG, BAD, HAIRY, HORRIBLE thing...). I picked up a nail in the rear tire of the Busa a week ago, they replaced it on the spot, no questions asked with a $200 Dunlop and gave me a smoking deal on the front tire (it's a good idea to match front and rear tires on a motorcycle) - replacing both on the spot while I waited. Two thumbs up.




Now, those are three good dealership experiences... pretty much ALL of the others have been bad.

There's the Chevy dealer who sold me am aftermarket spare tire carrier lock for a pickup truck I bought... which then rusted solid and would no longer work... which, of course, you only find out about when you really, really need it... and THEN he wants to charge me to cut the damned thing off so I can finally get at my spare tire.

There's the Pontiac dealer who was furiously screwing over GMS buyers by over-charging them for cars (GMS is and has been a single price, but this particular dealer screwed all kinds of GMS buyers by lying through their teeth and over-charging, but still claiming it was GMS). Now remember, these are regualr Joe Schmoes this place is screwing over, these are EMPLOYEES and their FAMILIES!!!!!!!!!

Then there's Randy Hosler Pontiac, who were tasked with replacing a screw that held the headliner up in our Aztek. The screw backed out on it's own, so they then STRIPPED the replacement and tried to fix it with a plastic christmas-tree type fastener that lasted for all of about a week. Concurrently, they were to replace an airbag sensor... which failed again in about 10,000 miles. That may not be their fault, but since there's only a year of warranty on a dealer fixed non-warranty issue, guess who gets to pay for the next fix?

There are the a$$hole$ with their "market adjustments". I hope those guys in particular burn in he!!.

The best plan, in my opinion, is to take pricing control COMPLETELY out of the hands of the dealers. Make it a "voluntary" program, much like the 55mph speed limit was "voluntary", but get it done. Dealerships and salesmen simply cannot be trusted to have a long-term view of the business. There may be exceptions, but they're rare, and the customers spoke loudly and clearly that they like "no-haggle" pricing.

 

TurboGP,

I meant no disrespect meant to Buickman in particular, but I will admit to a shot at the Buick brand in general. Their cars are great for what they are, but by no ones estimation are they the sort of thing that anyone gets excited about. If everyone in the world who now buys boring Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais and whatnot suddenly decided to buy Buicks and boosted their market share, it would be because they made a really good, comfortable, bland car, certainly not anything that enthusiasts enjoy. From a "save GM" standpoint, that would be just as well as building and selling a million fifth gen Camaros, but would exite me about as much as refrigerators or roofing supplies.

For GM to be successful, I'm sure that they do need to sell ten times more boring cars than interesting ones, but as an enthusiast, I'm not going to get too worked up over the design of these appliances, much less how they market them in Southern Michigan.

I do stand by my assessment of car salesmen. I actually don't begrudge them this behavior at all, their livelyhood is dependant on getting the most money out of me that they can, and my best interest is to give them as little as I can. Given the degree of variability that dealers charge on their product, that leads to an adversarial relationship. It's just the nature of the beast.