The ONLY reason people cared about the M*stang concept so much is because it was retro, that's EXACTLY the way it works. Tons of interest at 1st and people saying "oh yeah, looks like the 60's cars," but that goes away fast and that attention leaves because it is retro and stuck that way looking like cars from 30 years ago, which younger buyers will think or realize sooner or later that it's stupid. 1 of the reasons the current cars sells good is because it is styled right. (for a person who likes M*stangs that is) You can tell the car is a M*stang and there are subtle cues from back in the day mixed with new styling and sharp/angular lines. It's basically the same formula that the Third Gens used and look how good it worked for them too. The sales of retro are never consistent for a reason, they attract interest at 1st just because of the styling and then, something "new" is needed again.

 

Retro or Not

Say what you want too, but if you took a 1967, 68, or 69 Camaro body, gave it all the modern features I.E. LS6 engine, 6 speed, latest electronics, IRS, quality interior, and kept the price under 25,000. Well I believe you would see record sales because it would have everything needed to make it successful.

Good value to dollar ratio
Good looks
High horsepower
Great handling
Good quality

In the same token if you took a new design and gave it all the same features it would also be successful.

The most important of the above qualities, is the Value to Dollar ratio. If it is good it will overcome the non-existence of several of the other items. But if you just depend on say good looks and give it low horsepower then charge someone 35,000 dollars for it, it wont last. And part of the reason why the mustang has done so well is because every 18 year old can afford one. They grow up in them and there are increasingly faster and more expensive packages they can turn to as they get older and make more money.

There are other intangibles that play into the issue. I have a friend that owns a 2001 Expedition. The dealer that he bought it from calls him every 3 months to ask him how the car is doing. Is there anything that the dealer can do for him. Ford sent him expensive fold up chairs with ford on the back that were the same color as the car. His daughter bought a mustang and gets all kinds of things from ford. Ford also sends out questionnaires about the quality of the car, dealership, etc. And even if Ford doesn’t use them for anything, people look at this as better quality control and that the company really wants them to help be a part of their quality system.

One of the biggest problems Gm has had over the last 10 years is not understanding what made them successful in the first place and that is big horsepower for cheap that is what the camaro, chevelle, and even some of their bigger cars all had in common. Then like idiots they run their mouths in interviews about how they produce such great cars for what they deem great prices and act offended that the buying public won’t buy them. Bottom line is most of the younger buyers can’t see the difference in the quality between the camaro and the mustang but they can sure see the 18,500 for a V8 mustang as opposed to 26,000 for a V8 camaro.

Thanks BUM_Z

 

Funny, all of the people I know lusting after Minis and Bugs aren't old people who remember the old ones, but just young people who aren't into cars and just think they're really nice looking.

If you think the Mustang isn't going to sell...well...

Wanna put money on it? :-D

 

I would. But I bet that the actual car will be a little less retro than the concept.

 

I still don't think the Mini is retro for the following reasons -

It was never sold in this country in any kind of real numbers - so it was never really here to begin with.

In the contries it was sold in (Europe and Japan, etc.) it was sold continuously almost until the car was replaced by the new mini. In those markets the new mini replaced the old - much like the new accord replaced the old models. Truthfully, there was a gap of a year or so - but only because BMW decided to take control of the project and delayed it.

This is not similar to the Beetle - which ended sales in the US and Europe in the late 70's and then "returned".

....but to make things even more confusing - in Mexico they still sold the old beetles until this summer - so for Mexicans how could the new beetles be 'retro' if they were still making the old ones...in the same factory no less.

 

Mexicans don't share the same passion for cars as we do here. So, to them it's just a newer version of a car built along side it. They don't care for cars much. I know that there are enthusiasts, but for the most part, they drive their cars until it takes a dump.
Very poor Mexicans here buy 15-17 year old cars; while the more afluent ones buy either high end SUV's, trucks, or a bland sedan.


By the way, I hate the new Mini, Beetle, and PT Cruiser. The new Mustang, to me is "okay", but I'd rather see a evolved version of it, not something sold 35 years ago.

 

Now you live in the area like I do, so you know better than that.

If you believe Mexicans don't share a passion for cars equal to most any other group of people, you really should get out more & meet people.

 

So many things to say have I.

First, the ugly truth is that we (car nuts, or muscle car buffs) are a minority of the car buying public. The public at large want's new, not a rehash of the past. When a "retro" car comes out, enthusiast of that car will snap it up, but once they get their's, who's going to buy it? How will a car company get it's investment back? Though it's hard to believe this when we hang out with no one other than other enthusiasts, it's a rare day when a performance version of a car sells more than 10-20% of it's total. Sure, Z28s made up a majority of Camaro sales, but Camaro's downfall was it didn't sell to anyone else. Mustang's still around because of it's non-performance models.

If horsepower, price, and looks is all it took to sell a car, then the other pony car would be dead, and not ours. For roughly the same price as a Mustang GT, the Z28 has more power, better brakes, better utility (hatchback), a 6 speed transmission, better overall fuel economy, and I could go on forever. Yet, not only did the F-body die, it's the more expensive Camaro SS that maintained sales momemtum, despite it being barely more than wheels and a hood scoop package going for a $5,000 premium. "Value to Dollar ratio" is a myth outside the budget or economy car market, and there's plenty of examples (too many to mention here).

Second, 18 year olds don't buy new cars. There may be a few, but if memory serves, 18-20 year olds make up something like 1-3% of the new car market. Those who do buy new in this age group tend to be divided into only the economy car class (where they are buying) and SUV or luxury car class (where they tend to have help from their parents).

Performance car buyers tend to be over 25 years old. Mustang GT has an median buyer age in the early 30s, Z28s late 30s, while Cobras and Camaro SSs tend to have a median customer age over 40. More young performance buyers purchase a $25,000 Celica than a $25,000 Camaro. But more often than not, they'll buy a used car, & pour money buying their own parts.

As for Ford's customer care efforts & quality control, my sister can give you an earful about that. Some dealers and regions are better than others, and both companies have dealers who are rascals, but it seems that GM has the upper hand overall. Especially at Saturn, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and most Chevy dealers. I personally don't know about Pontiac (they seem pretty spotty ).

 

I'm Beginning to like You guionM but your so Wrong hehehe

I don’t know where you live but here in the east Texas area there must be an abnormal amount of 16 to 22 year old female buyers for the Mustang because we see them everywhere. The quote about any 18 year old can buy a mustang came from 57 year old GM regional sales manager. As to the Value to Dollar relationship not counting, then you need to talk to some guys that sell cars for a living. I know 3 or 4 just off the top of my head. And they all say except for the SUV market and specialty cars I.E. corvette that this ratio is the one most important thing to keep a car on the market.

Also I notice that you always quote MSRP for any prices that you use for comparison. This same 57-year-old regional sales manager for GM States that nobody Pays MSRP for a car. You need to step into the year 2003. Every Tom, ****, and Harry that walks into a dealership has a KBB or a NADA guide with them. They know what the dealer Invoice is, they know what the incentives or rebates are, and they all know even if the dealer sells this car at their invoice price the dealer still gets a Kickback or (HOLDOVER) from the manufacturer of 3 to 5 % on the invoice price depending on their volume of sales. So they are still making money even at the invoice price. He states that the GM car dealers had probably the biggest hand in killing off the F-body. He said for the last 10 or so years the Ford dealerships have been more willing to sell mustangs at invoice or close to that just taking the Holdover as profit where the GM dealers have been reluctant to do this. Yes you are right the Mustang GT and the Camaro MSRP is roughly the same and I don’t think anyone here will argue that the Camaro is not a better built car, but when you go to the dealer to buy one the mustang will always be cheaper. And the quote about most 18 year olds cant tell the difference in the quality between the mustang and the Camaro, well that goes for a whole lot of 20-30 year olds too. But they can tell the difference of 3k to 5k in price.

The Fact that ford has better quality control is not true but it is perceived that way. My friend the sales manager and many other employees at GM have been trying for years to get Gm to implement some kind of program like the ford dealers in this area are doing. They all know that its not going to make a difference in Quality but the public perceives that it does.

And the other issue is quality and service. My friend has to fight with the service managers at nearly every dealership he has. He gets at least 2 to 3 calls a week from irate customers about a Camaro that has lost the rear end. Everyone knows that the 7.5 rear end is a POS and wasn’t designed to handle the horsepower of the LS1 with a 6 speed. Instead of Gm Fixing the problem with a better Rear end they have left the Dealers to deal with the fall out of **** poor engineering. The service managers get graded on what their quota is so they say the car was abused so they don’t have to pay for it. He states that he has more costumers who have filled complaints with the arbitration board over this issue than any other vehicle or problem. This really pisses costumers off and drives a lot of customers away or so my friend says.

And the last thing is the fact that you always quote what portion and age group buys which kind of a car. My friend (the sales manager) really gets pissed when people bring up these stats. He says and nearly all of his peers agree with him that this is the one biggest waste of money and time that manufacturers do. It really pisses the guys off that work for Gm that upper management won’t listen to the guys that have sold their cars and serviced them for 20 to 40 years but they will listen to some 25 year old **** weed that runs numbers but don’t know anything about a car. And at best this is the **** poorest form of management there is. It allows them to say no matter what they do this is how the stats are going to fall out. Instead what they should be doing is engineering good quality vehicles that are innovative and trying to change the stats.

I repeat it doesn’t matter Retro or not.

Good value to dollar ratio
Good looks
High horsepower
Great handling
Good quality

These are what keep a car on the market.

According to my friend the Sales Manager the Mustang has survived due to the fact that the Ford Dealers have kept the prices close to invoice there by keeping the Value to Dollar ratio at a good level.

 

You think so? HA! You're wrong! Los Angeles is only 18 miles or so away. I actually live in Downey(a city hardly ever heard about) , but, Long Beach is closer, so that's why I list it. Next to my city, is South Gate, and Bell, two of the heavly Mexican areas that I know! Everyone speaks Spanish, luckily for me, so do I.

By the way, I was refering about the one's who WEREN'T born here. I know quite a few Hispanics who like cars, they're mostly born here. Very rarely(more like never) do I meet someone from Mexico who is passionate about cars.